Nothing to hide, nothing to fear
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Thread containing the given PostID
Lord Trady of Blix - 1115181
Well, you heard it.

Time to start hitting UT hard this weekend and each weekend before R57 before it's no longer worthwhile.
Dinsoo - 1115192
Grind, grind grind!!! It's so fun!
yinki2 - 1115203
some zone should be level restricted to avoid easy mass powerleveling...
Lesni - 1115224
Yep... balance, nerf, balance, nerf.
Mishras - 1115271
I enjoy this scene not only for the XP, but I’ve met a lot of new people. Hopefully they don’t ruin all the fun.
Jaesun - 1115352
When he says Upper Tiers, does he mean the “special area”, or the actual area?
Magnus Zarwaddim - 1115366
I never even explored the area. lol
redfish - 1115384
We shall never surrender!
Synergy Blaize - 1115390
I totally agree.
Upper Tears finally brought a Social element to Shroud.
I have met so many new players by grouping in UT > 90% of them were awesome, 10% of them were free-loading AFK'ers or power-leveling alts.

As Chris always says > "As usual, this is why we can't have nice things"
So alas @Mishras, @Chris will destroy the only reason people started meeting new people & we will be back to players soloing their chosen creatures.... :(
With the last patch/balance adjustment, many groups already became suicide missions.

So with the next adjustment, if you don't have a PhD in Excel spreadsheets or unfortunately play in non-peak hours, UT cave will be a no-go zone....

Of course @Chris means the cave/special area.
It was the one place in Shroud, people were meeting others & having fun!
Can't be having that, can we?
Gustach - 1115391
If the nerf comes true... I just dont get it.
We already have a cap in the xp per hour gained by attenuation. Why change the best and most played scene in the game nowadays?
Cryodacry - 1115395
I am going to have to agree with you here. But the toning down of the loot is a must .... XP should stay the same but the drops from this need to be nerfed into the ground. There needs to be a balance between good drops and good xp. Having both is just wrong
Feeyo - 1115411
It is probably you guys (xp whores) multi grinding UT that is creating all these hitching problems all over Novia...
Slay their heads!
Gaelis - 1115420
I think the really high lvl players need a place like this, it takes so much xp to lvl beyond 100.
If it is too much loot, so reduce/adjust it maybe, so players go to UT and reward is good XP mainly.
Lower lvl are already kind of banned from there, because after it changed most groups asking for 100 players now. :)
Apollo31 - 1115447
Seriously...I have run Upper Tears with groups of people I have never met and had the best time! I am one of those people that is always in party mode alone. I pulled myself out of the shell to group up because it was worth it. I have made a bunch of new SOTA friends from this!!!! Please do not nerf this to extinction. I beg you!

Oh and by the way I have been using Alt-F for the group very well if groups are open and a reason to go!
Kazar - 1115450
I grind alone, yeah
With nobody else
I grind alone, yeah
With nobody else
You know when I grind alone
I prefer to be by myself
Brewton - 1115469
Wow, really wow. You have an area where all of the posts are super positive. A place where people really enjoy meeting others. A place that forces teamwork. A place where those who are grouped together must meet come into the same instance. I personally have meet many people who I had never grouped with before LFG & UT came out and now you want to “tone it down”? You know that means it will become extinct like the monkey room. Sometimes the numbers you see on paper DO NOT reflect the human aspect. Your numbers may show that something is not quite right in UT, but I can tell you that your numbers do NOT show that people enjoy that area, the groups, conversations, friendships, etc. that comes with venturing in that area.

I guess we should have seen this coming. It has happened in the past. People enjoy an area for too long and BAM. Well I’m sure once it happens you will see groups going only to the Rise again. It’s sad, I really thought more places like UT were going to make its way into the game after the devs saw how popular it had become and because of all of the positive posts about it. Some will say they trust that the devs know what they are doing by changing things and I am sure they will continue their trust even when they are the only person left playing the game, but for the rest of us it really puts a damper into a place we enjoy going and having fun in.
Lord Tachys al`Fahn - 1115476
Are you kidding me? I can make more an hour running through the Krawl and Krul than in Upper Tears. With a party of 8, we might get 2k each from the loot drops in an hour, maybe more if the RND gods are nice and drop a few lich skulls and skel bones. In the Krawl and Krul, we get something to the tune of 3k each, and there's much lower difficulty.
Brewton - 1115478
Good example Tachys, and in the Rise I get a better drop rate of bundles than in UT.
Lord Tachys al`Fahn - 1115479

With the state of loot I this game, there should never be a call to nerf it... ANYWHERE. That’s like misery not just loving company, but demanding it!
Brass Knuckles - 1115491
I think this might be extream, and people who have done upper tears knows its a bit cheesy esp during dbl xp weekends. Super fast and easy xp everyone just spam banish and xp just flows in. the loot is fast and easy the non stop spawns make this a great spot to make gold also.

Its a good place to pull groups and it should remain good even after his milder change. Id rather see places like the rise, krull become the better place to group ut's stand in one spot and spam a skill isnt challanging enough for the reward it pays. Chris posted a chart last week the rise had the same amount of deaths as ut but uts traffic was off the charts.

There is no risk accociated with the reward, make ut harder or make the harder stuff pay better.

This what I hate about dbl xp weekends..
Svahn - 1115494
Aha - this explains why I couldn't find a UT group to join last weekend, me being only level 70.
Everytime I checked in LFG level 90 was required.
It's not only level 100 that needs help gaining xp in my view.
2112Starman - 1115498
Gotta agree with most people here, UT is the best thing to happen to this game. First time in 3 years I have grouped with people and I have lead hundreds of hours worth of tears.

I would allow several new players (or at least very low lvl players) in the old tears group to help them out. The change 2 weeks ago made it so I could only allow maybe 1. If you make it harder then none.

If you change tears again I would suggest that change not be in difficulty, drop the xp per mob by 1/4.

The simple fact is that I think most people do not like the 30 minute wait per run during 2x xp. I would prefer to be able to run one non-stop Tears which allowed people to come and go as they need to.

Another option, return it to how it was (max lich was 1100 hp) and cut the xp per mob by 50%. That would allow us to still make about 1 mil xp an hour in 2x, let lower lvl people in to help out and let us run it 24x7.

I have met a thousand new people in Tears group. I finally opened up my friends list again and have hundreds of new friends. To understand the difference, I only allowed 10 people on my friends list before. UT probably saved this game. Dont mess with it again.
Brass Knuckles - 1115500
The 30/30 is what makes it feel most broke, the better solution might be to cap ut at 600k xp to encourage grouping, and leave the harder more riskey stuff at a million.

Ut killed all control point groups because its easier and pays better. Control points are more risk and take a more organized group.
Gaelis - 1115501
I'm just 83 and after they made it harder I wasn't in UT anymore. Think there is need now for equal help from everone in party
or at least not to care for us lower lvl to ress while fighting the liches :D
There should be maybe an "UT" for our lvls as well....maybe it exists already and we just don't know it :)
Lord Trady of Blix - 1115502
Perhaps you're right, but I think much of this stems from the "We're just standing around argument". Well, I'm a tank so I don't just stand around during tears, I'm running all over the place. The casters and archers stand around but that's because it's in a cave and their playstyle and it's safer. Did you play UT during R56 ? We already earn significantly less experience than before, it got slightly harder and now it's going to get even more hard, so it just pushes it into the realm of higher level players and not those 80 or close to it, which is unfortunate I think. "Milder changes" but if you make "Mild" changes release after release, that adds up to big changes. Why ruin a good thing ?

As far as loot, okay, we're dumping a lot of wood and metal scrap and in 2 months of UT I've gotten like 12 lich skulls and 13 skeleton bones.... maybe 4 or 5 yellow supply bundles and a whole bunch of obsidian chips... not exactly breaking the bank.

Honestly I expected *more* and varied versions of UT...
Brass Knuckles - 1115503
Ive played ut non stop every dbl xp weekend and if you remove the yellow and blue bags and rare arti drops the sheer gold ive made in ut has been mind blowing. I sell everything gems chips and rusted gear.

It takes 32 mins at most to attenuate vrs the 29 before during dbl xp, the change was little too no effect on this for groups.
2112Starman - 1115508
Thats the next thing, the loot drops should have already had been made much better with the last doubling of the mobs HP. Make it harder, we better start seeing some blue bags.

I can only make at most 2K gold selling the things that drop per 2 hour runs as it is.
Lord Trady of Blix - 1115511
That's cool, but not everyone has done that. Some of us can only play for a few hours even on the weekends, and even then I get sick of UT after 4 hours of it anyhow. That just goes back to the "if you can play more, you'll get more stuff, regardless" thing.
Brass Knuckles - 1115512
Mabey you have bad rng ive gotten 5 blue bags so far.
Lord Trady of Blix - 1115513
Yeah I have totally not gotten any blue bags. So you are either playing like 24 hours on the weekend UT nonstop, which is cool, or really lucky, or both. Because I've gotten none since I started doing UT back in June.
Brass Knuckles - 1115516
I put a crap load of time in I play all weekends long and solo during the non dbl xp time, ut is that good.

101-103 took me 6 months to get 103-115 took me july.
2112Starman - 1115517
In the thousand hours I have put in tears, I have seen 1 blue bag drop in the entire loot table period. I might get a yellow bag once every 10 hours
Brass Knuckles - 1115519
Like I said mabey bad luck, ive got better drops soloing though since I dont have to share loot then.
Brewton - 1115520
I run UT a lot and never had any blue bundles drop, it probably is my bad luck, but I also sell EVERYTHING I get and only make about 2k gold. So it seems as my experience mirrors that of many others. But we are not breaking bank with UT runs, we are not flooding the market with blue or higher bundles. So why another change? Like I stated in my other post, sometimes the human factors should out weight the numbers from a chart, but that is my opinion. lol
Gorthyn - 1115522
Yes it's been quite noticeable that high levels seem to be the only ones welcome in UT groups now. Nice how people have used UT and Monkey room before that to get a leg up and now seem to have pulled up the rope behind them...
Bambino - 1115524
UT & the Monkey Room were some of the worst things in this game. LFG was doing great in getting newer players more socially involved. However, it's now being overshadowed by the constant mindless grind in UT. It now caters to players that want to do the one thing that I despise most in this game. Grind. *barf*
Brass Knuckles - 1115526
Chris posted a chart for this mabey he can do it here, this zone blows away all metrics vrs other harder zones. If this is to be the standard then the harder stuff needs a major buff.
Brass Knuckles - 1115530
Monkey room almost made me quit this game, this is another cp but grouping has been great. Id like to see harder stuff pull in groups not the stand in one spot places.
Brewton - 1115532
I can say that when I post LFG I do not put that lvl req in and it seems to work out. Yes we do have to rez the lower lvl people a little more often now, but we haven't had a full party wipe. I would say to look out for my LFGs, but I have been playing a lot less since the change and will probably play even less once they put in this change. As they say "Don't hate the player, hate the game!"
Lord Trady of Blix - 1115534
Not everyone a.) is AL 115 b.) Can Solo Tears and keep everything for themselves c.) want to do that.

Let's stay on topic here, and not devolve this into bragging about how much stuff we get and how great we are, when the majority obviously DONT have that experience.
Svahn - 1115540
We all have different amounts of time to spend.
I can only play between 1 and 4 hours total on weekends.
And maybe 30 minutes on a weekday at the moment.

I only did the UT room twice.
I thought it got repetivite after 1 hour since it was the same thing over and over, but it was good xp.
:) And it was fun to group with people and interesting to mingle with higher level players in an action event :).
(Hopefully I wasn't too much of a liability, nobody remembers it now anyway, hehe)
Brass Knuckles - 1115543
If you read my post as bragging then you should go back and reread it. It was about the time and effort 6 months for 2 levels vrs 1 month for 12 harder levels. That points to the reason why it needs to be ballanced i.e your OP.

If ut is the new standard of xp gain then thats fine all i ask is the harder more risky stuff be better.

Even you know the truth of ut
Svahn - 1115546
Makes sense, there should be balance. But balance can take time to fix.
Seems to me like the entire game should be boosted.
Svahn - 1115548
They could use UT to experiment with scaling the mobs to current players in the scene.
But that is perhaps difficult to do.
Brewton - 1115551
That is something we can agree on! I like it Brass!
Brass Knuckles - 1115553
See I can agree here doing stuff that costs me potential deaths should pay enough for that risk. In ut I will never die, doing the rise i might die wiping out most of my potential gain because it has a higher risk factor.
Lord Trady of Blix - 1115556
Okay, but consider this: The way the leveling system is designed is on an infinite curve. Also the way the skills are designed there are not such huge differences between them, for example skills where the bonus is 8 percent at 100 and 10 percent at 120. Since everyone is likely to taper off long before a hard cap (200) is possible in the time frame of the game, UT or no, why not keep something that was useful to mid to high level players, encouraged social behavior, and also gave a bit of relief to the heavy, heavy grind this game has ?

We're still basically going to have a high XP area, but just now the changes make it so less people mid level (80 ) can enjoy it... There's already so many things that cater to high level players you know ? Like all the new creatures they added. Most of the high level scenes with bosses.

At least add a "tears-like" area for 70-90 level type players. For reference I'm currently running around with AL 96, if it helps, and I do also gained alot of levels from tears over the last few months, but it was fun... Do we want to remove the fun from our game ?
Dyonisys - 1115559
I do same amount of xp in group or solo in the rise so no rush
Brass Knuckles - 1115566
What the game needs is real and viable dungeons for diffrent levels of groups ut is fine its easy in design it would be a great mid level area, it should be compensated accordingly to its risk vrs reward.
Greyfox - 1115575
I guarantee if we had exit polls why people left SOTA, excessive nerfing would be a top 5 reason.
Brass Knuckles - 1115583
So lets go with buffing... make the hader stuff better.

Raise the cap on the rise to 2 million etc and speed up spawners a bit.

Id also like to see the old school trains in harder dungeons.
GMDavros - 1115599
I'm with Apollo and Blaize. Since i've been grouping in UT i've met a ton of outstanding people. I've thoroughly enjoyed the teaming and cooperation and have added many people to my friends list.

I've also gained an unimaginable amount of XP. I don't pay that much attention to the loot though. i'm not a ninja looter and just take what the dice give me. Anything that will detract from people grouping here will be unfortunate.

Cora Cuz'avich - 1115602
Chris had posted elsewhere that it's not specifically that it's overpowered, but that because it's overpowered, nobody does anything else, because they feel like it's wasted time when they could be getting more XP in UT. I sort of feel that way, but about Elysium. I want to earn crafter XP, and right now, the by-far best place is Elysium, unless you can afford to buy a lot of mats to earn XP by crafting. I sometimes go to Graff if I need gold (Crag is better for gold, but I don't like how much time is spent fighting the eight million ghosts) or Resolute Sewers if I'm too bored in Elysium, though I always feel like I'd be doing better in Elysium.

The easy solution is nerfing UT. the better solution, I think, is creating more UTs with different mobs, different loot types, etc. so that people have other options.

It would be nice if there were a lower level place or two. Something where AL50s could group up, and maybe get 200-300k xp an hour. Not really enough for high level players to bother soloing, as there's better, but more than what you can earn at AL50 easily.
Bambino - 1115604
Or, just get rid of the infinite grind. Set skill/adv/prod lvl caps - Put all your current XP in a bottle, then let player delegate to their avatar(s) in a new skill system with caps. We will no longer have to worry about an issue like this. Otherwise, there will always be a meta place that 90% of the populations hangs out at.
2112Starman - 1115606 but... The fact is that I have met a THOUSAND new players in Tears since it was created. It seems to me that the vast majority of players want to do Tears, especially considering this game arch-type. Why would you want to ruin it because you dont like it. Its not really grinding unless you make it. You could join a group, run it one time for 30 minutes, suck in that 1 mil XP and then go about your business. People do this all the time. That's not really grinding. Its actually not really your place to tell to those thousand people how they play the game, if they want to grind tears then let them grind Tears. You dont have to participate, there are still lots of dance parties all over the game.

It is literally the best thing put in this game to date and I can honestly say its probably what has actually saved the game (and its current) population to this date.

They actually gave us something that most people enjoy doing...

This is the first time I have really grouped in 3 years.
Brass Knuckles - 1115609
Brass Knuckles - 1115612
Wow this is where ur rng is better than mine, I only meet the same 25 players.
Bambino - 1115615
What!? A thousand? The only active players left are those that like to mindlessly grind. Not just ME, but thousands of players do not like the skill/level system as it is. It's blatantly apparent, and extremely hard to ignore.

First time to group in three years? There is really something wrong here. And, this is clearly not the solution.

Again, this isn't a me thing. This is a mass exodus of players thing.
Kazar - 1115618
Grinding is so good for you
It makes you strong and clever too
Grinding is a current craze
Grind some every day
Xeng - 1115619
When UT came out the first time my group of 3 struggled hard there and we weren't able to kill the last spawns, so we joined open groups and got our skills up. This enabled us to do it with 3 men whenever we wanted and we could get a few newer players in, helping them leveling up. After the last change we were already powerfull enough that we could do it with 2 and add more newer player as long as they stay away from the whirlwind of the melee Lichs. In my opinion if they make it harder it will not hurt my group of 3 to do it like before and get our 1m exp whenever we feel like it.
My problem is that as a newer player there won't be the possibility to easily raise up your skills to come to the level where you can help in Upper Tears, this results in the higher level players will raise their skills more and more, while the newer or low level players will struggle and therefore increase the gap between those groups significantly. Like in the real world, the rich are getting richer, while the poor stay poor.
Brass Knuckles - 1115621
I use to do the high and harder cps, ut ended these.
2112Starman - 1115623
Exactly... exactly... this game has been designed like this from day one... day... one. You are confused on what is causing people to leave this game.. there are many factors. One of them is not Tears... Tears is what has saved it. Mostly because its NOT a mindless grind. I *know* what a mindless grind is, I made it to adv lvl 100 pretty much solo farming in Ulfeim for 1.5 years to the tune of 10,000 wolf heads at one point. Tears is GROUP collaboration and most people (except healers and mages) are very active running around all over the place. Its FUN, Stop trying to ruin peoples game play.

Dont challenge me on the thousand players thing, you have no concept. You can visit my Twitch channel which is probably 5% of my tears time and see over 200 different people cycle through my groups in the past month alone.

Why do I have 111 GM's??? I dont need them. I have 111 GM's so that I can run tears groups and train new people and help them raise their levels. Tears has been GREAT about helping new people get into the game. Most the people in this thread have been in one of my tears groups.
Brewton - 1115626
Ok, thousands might be a bit much, but he has a point. The few years I have been in Sota, I never ran or grouped with Starman until UT. And talking to him in UT has expanded my knowledge. I have met tons of people in UT that other wize I might not have met in game. Is it a grind, sure, but I like the social aspect more than the grind so it doesn't bother me. Yes we could use more places like UT, but that is a pipe dream since people want dungeons, mounts, Ep2, ships that move etc. Let us keep what we like and enjoy and have fun in, not change it every release so people have to disburse.
Brewton - 1115627
How has it ended that? I'm sure the people who use to run it with you would still run it with you if you ask them. I have still done cps when people ask. It hasn't taken me or the guild I am in away from cps, we still do them.
Bambino - 1115633
Lol! Are you joking? Absolutely clueless... You are in some delusional world, you are trolling, or you have your head so far stuck in a hole you will never see the light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe all the above.

People like YOU that advocate for systems/adds that only cater to a select few are another reason for the exodus of players.

You are not even a challenge telling cringy lies like that. Being on some pipe dream mumbling BS that is no where close to relevant. Your twitch stream get's 5 watchers at max? lol, get real dude... better get to counting those players in all your streams... kek.
Brass Knuckles - 1115639
Nah once ut opened up all the reason to do them ended. People went because it was great xp even with the risk of death. Now ut pays the cap and the risk for a high level player is absent.

I think you guys are freaking out over the proposed change im sure they will keep UT good it just might not be godly we dont know yet.
Elay - 1115643
I'm the same, - maybe not a thousand, but my friends list has gone from a handful to several hundred on the back of grouping in UT

and again, the same. - I only started grouping to enable me to do UT - I now look for groups all the time - it's added a completely new dimension to the game for me.

I do like the idea of having other versions of the UT cave- suddenly finding a new cave in an existing 2 skull area, then another in an existing 4 skull area and so on - it'd encourage people to move round the map more too.
Bambino - 1115652
Please explain how mindlessly killing mobs for hours has expanded your knowledge? I felt dirty when I got done with a four hour session.
Brass Knuckles - 1115663

Id much rather a real dungeon expierence then stand in one spot and banish.. but thats 1 mans opinion.

Groups and ut are a diffrent subject we all want a better group exp.

Id like a real tank n spank dungeon where cc and strategy are required.
2112Starman - 1115669
Clearly... the truth hurts (oh glory, the shift to personal attacks). Again, stop trying to ruin the fun of thousands of players in this game for your own personal opinions on how you want to play a game.
Brewton - 1115690
Because while grouping we had the opportunity to talk about all kinds of game related things, such as skill, deck development etc. It not only helped me but others in the group. In pretty much all control points you stand in one spot as waves of monster come at you, in the Rise you pretty much stand in one spot to kill everything before moving to the next room to rinse and repeat. Then you go back to the room you already cleared to do the same thing. So while UT doesn't have rooms it's pretty much the same thing you don in other areas of this game.
Bambino - 1115691
Personal attacks? Trying to bait me? You fail buddy. You can keep lying and being as hypocritical as you want. In the words of Ben Shapiro, "Facts don't care about feelings."
Bambino - 1115692
We only had LFG for a whole month before UT was put in... I really think LFG has a lot more todo with grouping and being social with other players than you give it credit for.
2112Starman - 1115693
Wow, now you are just angry. Obviously your post will be deleted by moderation. Breaking out the ol' "you fail buddy". Uhg... come on, lets try to be adult.
Brewton - 1115699
Take a look back at my first post on this topic. I give equal credit to LFG and UT. I agree with you LFG is a awesome addition, but so was UT. ;)

ok Bambino, we both have differences in opinions which luckily we can freely speak about them here. But please don't call people fails, etc. We can discuss issues like adults without the name calling. I have even taken a few discussion to PMs because I wanted to hear another opposing view point without others interfering, but I didn't resort to name calling.
Bambino - 1115709
Not being an adult, angry? Your futile attempt to antagonize has hypocritically put your failed attempt unto yourself. Good luck with those plummeting RMT sales.
Bambino - 1115715
@Brewton: You either failed to read his post or you do not like that I am against UT. This guy is a known troll that baits people and antagonizes. I'll say it again - He fails.
redfish - 1115721
Is that an Oompa Loompa song
Vero - 1115723
sorry OT but..

You know lots of people now have that tune stuck in their head :p
EMPstrike - 1115725
Upper tears is way easier than control points, and attenuates you way faster. The xp should be on par with control points at best, not way better than and deffinately not way less risky.
Mac2 - 1115728
I would just like to point out the exp at superstition is better then UT.
Malimn - 1115731
@Chris Why don't you make other zones like Upper Tears, which a LOT of people like, instead of your style of constantly reducing the gains people can get after giving to them in the first place!
Gia2 - 1115732
I really hope this correction will be like the previous one and a mild one :) here my 2 cents about upper tears:

I came back to SOTA thanks to the extraordinary QoL reached lately, GFX improvements and mainly to LFG system ( UT). Have many friends who can say the same as well.
It's a perfect de-stress zone from the RL when you have few time, or a perfect istance to warm up the artillery before goin explore somewhere else.

The XP cap is still there. Even with massive sessions (let's say 2-3 hrs in there) you will need MONTHS and probably YEARS to get from 110 to 120 Adventure Level. Math is there.
Hope this "Nerf" is something that will affect those monster solo players / botters and not the actual players. I do respect you hardcores totally, nothing against our elites. I guess it's already hard for em right now to go in there with a smallmen.

I never seen so many people like in UT. I never enjoyed so much meeting new people like once I'm in UT. Every session you add 3-4 new people in FL that maybe you never met before. 3-4 new friends to actual start to play with. Many times the group is made by 8 different nationality/languages/timezones and this is really exciting and very vey MMO

Groups are wonderful, we should really need like 3-4 zones like UT but with different schemas/biomes and intel to cohoperate.
This plus Novia OVERMAP CITIES forced MULTIPLAYER MODE ONLY and SOTA will kick asses on september once people come back from vacations. I SWEAR this to you.

Edited to make it more complete and comprehensive
Boris Mondragon - 1115735
Fellows; how about we stop flinging mud and feeding egos for one moment. We all have valid points here.

First, this nerf when people are having fun leads nowhere and just leaves a negative taste for us to pass on to potential new players which this game needs to survive. So @Chris go easy with the nerf bat it has driven and will continue to drive players away,

@Bambino you have one valid point in the middle of what comes off as terminal hostility. I agree on hard caps to end the monotony of the grind. So let’s say 150 max on any skill, AL 140 cap to be raised by 10 on each successive new EP. Then we promote actual guild wars for special territories, alliances, betrayals and politics. Now you have an end game and a reason to grind in order to be part of something epic.

Maybe one of you who has access to the Devs and a point of view similar to mine can present this as I am a “persona non grata “ due to my infamous “Disappointment with EP2 Stretch Goals”. I see the light at the end of the tunnel to attract new players and they disagree. R/Boris/El Pirata.
Steevodeevo - 1115737
Lol this community :)

I'd like to see some stats on the number of players who regularly use Tears vs the total active player base. I never go. After a couple of runs I decided it was a dire bore and to never go again.

The same names recur across the 3 pages of this thread, no more than half a dozen. The majority wailing about losing their uber experience per hour instance. I don't care a jot about exp per hour, I'm playing the game, having fun, rarely ending up doing what I set out to do. I get immersed, explore, adventure, craft, have fun.

The reason I ask how many people as a proportion of active players are Tears regulars is because I am sceptical that Tears is all that influential or important to most players. It's dull, repetitive and really only for those obsessed with exp gathering rates. The min-maxers seem to always be animated about something anyway, usually any form of change that impacts min-maxing! :)

Its a shame Tears is the only place that encourages grouping and socialising, is this true? I wouldn't know. I will group as soon as I find a fulfilling dungeon or quest chain that warrants it and is... fun. Surely social play encouraged by grouping is also viable in other locations and instances? I often wonder, for example, why more folks don't Pug-up to break sieges. I would, I occasionally look and never see a 'lfg, break some sieges! all levels welcome!'. At least sieges offer a more interesting map, scope for tactics and engineers can be tackled by mixed groups with lower levels included and the siege 'dungeon' has an end level Boss, who is tough, drops valuable artifacts now and then and the daily hand in of 18 items is a decent reward in itself.
Bambino - 1115741
@Boris Mondragon: 150 is already close to the current soft cap. Going anything beyond 100 is extremely dreadful. Not everyone is retired, or in college, to have the time to get to such extremes.
Fruck - 1115752
Id actually say its the reverse of a nerf.... My understanding is its a buff in a way - making the mobs harder hehe. This should encourage more grouping! Dont why those that use grouping as an argument for it think making it a bit harder is a bad thing.... Obviously this depends on the extent of the change.

I also think we need to stop worrying about if one zone is more used than another, this happens in every MMO, ever, even if 1 is 1xp point more per hour than another. I liked UT, now I cant stand it - Ill do The Rise and take a bit longer to attune just for variety. Also attunement keeps it all in check anyway...

Rather have time spent on making new zones or other zones better than smacking current ones.
Boris Mondragon - 1115757
Brother be part of the solution then. What do you propose that would stop the senseless grind and an endgame. I think very few have gone past 150 in any skill so that could be a hard cap to be raised in 10 point increments every new episode. I don’t think anyone has passed AL 140 yet so the same applies to that. In short once we have that in place we can focus on other parts to the game whether it be crafting, decorating or pummeling each other to death for Novian supremacy as a guild, faction etc.
redfish - 1115759
People focus on superficial things some times. If the game was really super fun in its core gameplay, all the nerfs in the world wouldn't keep me away from it.

Agreed that there are reasons why people like UT, but if the only lesson devs learn is to never do nerfs, and just always make things super convenient for players, I don't think they'd be doing a good job as devs. There's a lot more substantial lessons to learn from UT. This is in part why I wrote this thread.
Bambino - 1115760
@Boris Mondragon: As stated a couple of pages back, I would simply "get rid of the infinite grind. Set skill/adv/prod lvl caps - Put all your current XP in a bottle, then let player delegate to their avatar(s) in a new skill system with caps. We will no longer have to worry about an issue like this. Otherwise, there will always be a meta place that 90% of the populations hangs out at."
Brass Knuckles - 1115764
Whats the cap there now I was only aware of a single cap tbh? And ive never seen a sc lfg when dbls are running

Last one I saw was pre UT

1. I love the group thing.
2. I dont mind ut its kinda fun to mindlessly kill sruff this reminds me of diablo.

Its just out of balance risk vrs reward vrs other zones as well. You have realized this @Mac2 ive seen u farming this zone like a boss its good. Mabey to good compaired to everything else?
Mac2 - 1115775
The cap is a mil just like anywhere else, but you can attenuate a group of 8 faster in superstition then you can in UT. Saw a group running superstition last night.
Brass Knuckles - 1115787
Cool but you can attrnuate 4 man in 35 mins in ut and I wouldnt even think about trying sc with less than 6.

It will be interesting to count the number of sc groups vrs the hundreds of ut groups this weekend.

Im pretty sure it will be 0 to 200 unless someone is hell bent on proving me wrong then it will be 1 - 200.
Woodchuck - 1115791
If UT will be nerfed, can it wait till I am high level enough to try it in its current state for several weekends?

Current adventuring level: 46
Brass Knuckles - 1115795

Let me claify im ok with them not nerfing it if they buff the harder more risky stuff.

Buff rise/fall to 2 mill an hour and cps to 3 and it would be a better balance.
2112Starman - 1115803
I kinda laugh at the people who say UT is an endless XP experience. Im adv lvl 111 now and it would take me ~40ish mil xp to get to 112. Thats 40 solid hours of UT period and the skill gains I get now (taking stuff above 100) are more and more and more minute in their percentages. No matter what I do I am limited in any higher level place to 1 mil (yes even solo in the mage room I can max that out). I have 111 GM's and I can only actively use maybe 20 at one time so what 90% of my XP isnt even being used on any given deck. If we switched to better CP's then it just means the group has to break for 40 mins instead of 30.

It doesn't matter what new thing they may build for a different experience, you're still limited to 1 mil xp and hour.

If I want to farm that 40 hours in UT to get adv lvl 112 then thats my choice... period... dont tell me that its not how I should play the game. Fine, if you think its dull and drum... thats your opinion... dont do it, there is a million other things you can do so dont also claim its ruining the game play. I dont get people who go into the essy and grind ore for 12 hours strait, but more power to them, they choose to do it and probably like it, dont tell them how to play their game. If I want to go into the rise solo and get that 1 mil xp, thats my choice. I simply choose not to spend my time at social party events. If thats what you like to do then more power to you, I dont care and Im not gonna tell you thats how you should play the game. I have a much funner time socially in a killing group then I do at a dance party... my opinion, my game play... my decision... more power to people who play differently. Great thing... we are all humans with vastly different preferences.

If you dont like it fine, dont ruin it for us, spend your time asking them for something new that fits your play style. Stop ruining our fun.
2112Starman - 1115805
I really only think the reason why we are not seeing these groups is that the LG came out with Tears and it just picked up and took off, everyone knows it. I dont think people know much about CP's any more (I dont) so if some peoples started putting up CP groups in LFG and started training people who join, we would probably see them. I am totally game to join them, Id love to do some thing different then Tears at times. Let try to get some CP groups in the LFG! Its probably the best time to organize this since a lot of people are getting tired of Tears but its the only thing people are organizing.

I know The Mac is a master of CP's :)
2112Starman - 1115809
Is this your point? Are you going after me for another argument on RMT in another thread that has nothing to do with this thread? Are you thread stalking me now?
GMDavros - 1115814
redfish - 1115816

Well. I'm going to continue to encourage the devs to make a fun game for as many players as possible, whether or not that interferes with the ability of people to grind 40 hours straight, and I won't apologize for that.
Joeziggy - 1115865
" Expect another milder change like last release where the critters get a bit tougher in R57."

Sounds like this thread is about speculation and assumption?

If its a "milder change" It will probably be a great place for people to group still.

My .02
Jaesun - 1115870
So why don’t people visit the other locations anymore? Specifically why. Are the encounters designed poorly, the layout, terrible XP?
Brass Knuckles - 1115871
I like the rise and still go there, its a bit more risk a death costs me 400k. Ut is no risk faster xp and I can do it while watching a movie.

Stand in one spot and cast banish, vrs having to plan pulls risk death and slower gains is my reason.

Path of least resistance for maximum gain is what I think to specifically anwser your very good question.
2112Starman - 1115882
Excellent, then you agreed with everything I said. I whole heartily agree with you.
Dinsoo - 1115886
Control Point
Mac2 - 1115892
Can get more coin in the fall, can get more exp at superstition.
Can I watch you stand in one spot and cast banish over and over till you die? Didn't know it was so easy, wonder why all those people die there then?
Onyx - 1115896
'tis sad that the ONLY place where players can group up and enjoy the game is in one specific "free xp" location.
Barugon - 1115914
Nerf is there wrong term. Nerf refers to a softening, like reducing your DPS. He's making UT harder, which is the opposite of a nerf.
Jaesun - 1115921
The Hardening!!
FrostII - 1115926
@Brass Knuckles Can I join Mac and watch you solo UT by standing in one spot and spamming banish ?
FrostII - 1115935
It might be more productive if everyone here went to Chris's thread and posted there.
He is participating in that thread and the UT nerf is the current topic of discussion.
Barugon - 1115947
Yeah, I'd like to see that too.
Kazar - 1115967
Iggy Pop "Dog Food"
Brass Knuckles - 1115968
Sure ur welcome to join me this weekend 8 people casting banish well 4 is plenty every wave melts like butter. Invite pyro if you want to see one man do it.

Unless ur trying to trip me up with the burkallers yea I realize they arnt undead.

In groups ive seen people with 125 - 300 hp people im pretty sure most the bodies are thiers.

Straight from soltown to ut is how id level.
Brass Knuckles - 1115970
I never said that (fake news) im talking 8 man ut groups.

Ive grouped with u tazar and frost you cant deny its like that.

8 people or less can actually wipe the waves as they spawn, one ice field per wave and gg.
Brass Knuckles - 1115972
I love how people try and make thier point by makeing up a narative .
Serafina - 1115983
The discussion slipped into a non-discussion here. Thanks for the feedback to those who provided it.