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Thread containing the given PostID
Zeddicus Zorander - 1115184
I have not sold anything on multiple vendors in over a month and I've heard this from multiple people. The economy in this game needs a massive overhaul ... it needs finite resources, multiple drains, and the value of individual crafted items needs to be improved... I'm not an expert on economics but I believe what I've stated is fairly self evident. I'm sure I will get support by a large part of the community that supports more drains in the economy.... please help the merchant class!!!
that_shawn_guy - 1115187
i've seen an increase in sales over the last couple of week and this week is shaping up to be even better.

i do wish customers would take time, skill, failures, etc into account for crafted items. i try to forget how many wands i throw/give away trying to get a good 3/3.
Rada Torment - 1115196
Zeddicus has a point on this, in general the economy was more"healthy" some months ago. We can't deny the fact that a higher population gives you always more movement in the market, and this has nothing to do with supply/demand issue (this is another topic).

And thats why I got some data from at least 50 players, we must analyze the market as a global thing, not only for what, as individual traders, we are getting.

Important to say there will be always 20 players moving a lot of gold/items in the market vs 100 players fighting to sell something each week, this is not new and never will change. This is one of the reason I went to gather some data from friends and guild mates, I can't just come here and say; I'm moving 100-200 items every week and making lot of gold. My personal experience as trader is not representative of the global market.

Just my point of view as an old trader :)
Lazarus Long - 1115199
No complaints when it comes to sales on vendors or otherwise.
Zeddicus Zorander - 1115204
What kind of information are you gathering? I'd like to help.
Zeddicus Zorander - 1115206
Forgive me Lazarus Long but you are very well known and have a lot of vendors :)
Lord Trady of Blix - 1115208
Some of the merchant prices are ridiculous, maybe that's why. 7,000 for Ancient Essence ? 300,000 for warlocks Chain ? 100k IGG for recpies ? You reap what you sow.
Rada Torment - 1115212
These three basically: Your activity (the time you spend only in trading while playing, the most important one), the amount of locations/vendors you have access to and which towns/cities are.

If you want to see some crazy prices, go to Soltown, the paradise of new players wasting 200g for each teleport scrolls.. fortunately there are a few guys like Spoon trying to give them a fair prices.
Elrond - 1115218
Shawn and Thomas have a nice tool you can view data with what people sell or buy and for what price
Lord Trady of Blix - 1115221
Elrond - 1115223
Not neccessarily... if people who have vendors there dont upload the receipts then no data to show ...
SmokerKGB - 1115225
If you're not getting any sales, then you're overpriced, sorry to break it to you...

I've had 300k in sales in the last 2 wks...
Cora Cuz'avich - 1115228
My sales have been down too. At first, I thought maybe it was because I switched to a greenhouse storefront, and left my vendor empty for a week. Sales were good prior, but after restocking, I figured traffic was low because people hadn't yet seen I was back in business. Then I realized, while you can activate vendors through normal storefront windows, you can't through the greenhouse version. I moved my vendor back outside (sigh) but thngs still haven't picked up.
Furious Farmer - 1115231
I've never heard of that tool until you mentioned it. That is one of the most helpful tools I have seen so far for vendors and buyers. Thank Elrond for sharing that.
Vladamir Begemot - 1115234
Or in a low traffic location. If that is the case, there will never be a better time to change your location.

I saw one of the best lots in Solania for sale in the marketplace the other day. If I wasn't already overextended I would get it. It's a perfect spot to sell your low level gear and buy resources, as new players come through there on quests and if they are going to go to the Catacombs or mine.

The market is slower than it was at launch, but I'm still getting sales to and buying from both new and veteran players. Still, the best thing that can be done to get the economy super charged is for there to be a higher population.

Take the time to reach out beyond our community and find the people who want to play with us but don't know we exist.
Vladamir Begemot - 1115238
Oh, one other thing that may be happening to some people, depending on where you are, is competition. There are some relatively new players in the game and they are marketing/pricing hard, so could very well be siphoning your traffic away.
Stevvcash - 1115242
yeah me and my 2 neighbors vendors arnt moving too many goods recently. definitely felt like I was rolling in mail in January
Zeddicus Zorander - 1115257
Is there anyway to upload data from old receipts?
Mishras - 1115267
I bought 300k off @Elrond in one day.

Now I’m poor.
Elrond - 1115274
Cant say for sure.
SmokerKGB - 1115279
Sorry, but you're wrong... Competition is the key to a Free marketplace, when consumers see "uniform" pricing, they usually leave and search the next vendor or go out a "work" to get their own supplies... I do it all the time, the game is rigged so that I can't farm my own supplies and make 1,000 of an item, but if I were to buy all my supplies, I can't make any profit, so I farm my own and supply what I can, at a reasonable markup, and get the sales... Since the supplies are "Free" with only fuel cost, my profit margin is very big, even if I do only have sales every month... My vendor is always stocked, as I can keep up with demand... I'm off the beaten path, and have repeat customers...

I wonder "why" the lot in Solania is for sale? Could it be that they could not make enough gold to pay the Taxes? Then went out of business, and now are selling?

Higher population is not the key, competition is... Uniform pricing is not the key, competition is...
SmokerKGB - 1115305
This is a nice tool, thanks for posting it...

Now for my dumb question: Where in the tool does it give location of the vendor? Or are those Town names? It would be nice to have the vendor location and to be able to filter 1 item, then get hi/lo price for all offerings...
Elrond - 1115307
The tools is new so probably work in progress ..i think they plan to add more stuff to it...if you click on an item in the list it shows hi and low sales... would like to see location of town where sales took place too if we suggest it , they will probably add it.
idaniod - 1115310
That's strange.. because when I look at that list... and I sell out of Soltown primarily... I don't see most of the items on that list that I sell on a regular basis..
Olthadir - 1115311
My understanding is that the functionality to put receipts on a user's hard drive to allow them to be uploaded (or read through) was a recent change. I only have the last three months.

Also, if the economy was better before, then I am excited. I'll be making thousands if it returns back. I just got into selling things and am enjoying it!
Olthadir - 1115315
Sellers have to upload their sales receipts to the site. So any 'missing information' is simply because people are unaware, unwilling or unable to upload their receipts.

(also, don't add any of your receipts until after August 31 so I have a better chance of winning one of shawn's prizes!)
alioth - 1115320
I beg to differ on the state of the economy. The economy seems much, much more robust than I had anticipated. Now, granted, this is me coming in as a relatively new player. I only started about a week before launch, so I cannot comment as to what the economy was like before I started playing. I had been very nervous when I opened my first shop that I would not be able to make the monthly taxes on a row lot. I have since found that it if you price items accordingly to sell, and not for the most commonly listed amount, that it is quite doable to pay rent and then some running a shop. @Titania Xylia 's tool and price list gives a huge window into the economy. The data only represents what was voluntarily uploaded since I believe June 23rd. Of that, it shows since the time of this writing, "266 receipts added in last 24 hours. 30,864 receipts and 3,802,251 items sold!" Now that is a lot of items. Furthermore, you can see the average, min, and max pricing for each and every item receipt contributed. It is a HUGE asset to folks trying to figure out market pricing. You can easily copy paste the whole data set into excel and take a look further, if you like. Doing that, you can see there is something like 931,201,308
354,911,070* gold that has moved hands collectively in the last 45-50 or so days since the tool started, and that is only including what there are submitted receipts for. Now the scale of this economy kind of boggled my brain, but again, I am new here, so maybe it was more robust in the past. Another wonderful tool that has come out for vendors is @OxNull 's OCR Vendor List - this tool allows you to post a vendor's inventory, and then scans the inventory to make it all searchable. If you haven't, try it out. Not a lot of vendors using it yet, but all of the Crown vendors are on there, and the more players who start to list there, the more I think that seller competition will increase and buyers will get better prices all around. Just my two cents, but from my perspective, if you aren't selling, try moving locations, try lowering prices, try advertising on the forums or on discord. All of those things help, and running a shop can be both profitable and a lot of fun.

*Edit: Looking over the data bit further, there are some pricing discrepancies in the average prices of several of the more common items being sold, and I suspect the first number I posted is likely in error. Summing just the sales total from all towns on the Top Towns list, however, the sum is still quite high, at over 350 million gold since the tool was started. Hopefully @Titania Xylia will put together a "Market Health" type page showing total number of gold moved per month, total number of vendors submitting receipts, and total number of unique customers purchasing items.
Vladamir Begemot - 1115350
FYI on the tool, you get your data by deleting your mail. It is saved in the data folder of Shroud, which you can easily find by typing /datafolder in your chat window. Deleted Mail is the subfolder you are looking for, or Discarded Mail, something like that.

You can upload your receipts from last month too, it handles it well and only records your items once. Then you can look at them in a useful way, hopefully more options for that coming. Supposedly .csv export coming soon as well. JSON exports available now.

Highly recommended. And no I'm not the top seller, I just hadn't deleted my mail since March, so had a huge pile to upload when the moment came. :)
Rowell - 1115704
I have 3 vendors; 2 in Novia Market (deco on one, mid-level weapons and artifacts on the other) and 1 in Brittany Fields (mostly deco, low level gear and misc stuff).

I'm seeing good sales at my deco merchant, slow sales at my weapons/artifacts merchant, and no sales in Brittany Fields.
My thinking is that location and prices are the biggest factors in selling items. I try to keep my prices low/fair, and it seems to be working for me.
EMPstrike - 1115734
One big drawback is that many of the quantities posted for sale/buy far exceed what the average person aquires in an hour or 2, which the devs intend to fix with flexible orders in the future.

The other biggest problem imo is Location. There is a market hub in game and very few people shop outside those areas, i personally just use vendors i know have what i need, because going town to town is pretty tedious and time comsuming

The link vladamir provided above is a decent resource to see what some vendors have been selling, wuantity price and location, so naturally its a good way to advertise, tho you would have to purchase your own stock through an alt account to get it on the site if no traffic comes through
EMPstrike - 1115746
Also, it takes more than just alot of stocked vendors to make a successful market.

Making it easy for the customer to reliably and consistantly find what they need is a very huge factor in success
Talimar - 1115755
As a crafter, I also am rather picky in what I will purchase; and how I accrue the items. I absolutely loathe t2 ingots pre-made and various other basic materials are no longer on market. This makes creation of better gear slower. This means it takes longer to accrue enough materials to make too many things so that they are at least not mediocre once complete.

Some of the key items people want however are still way overpriced. For purchasing/subsidizing some of the time spent farming for tin; Even the pricing of daggers would start off at 3-4k just for the bad ones currently.

(I haven't spread my cash around as much as I usually do though; as there was a good supplier of 1k batches recently. They made quite a bit of money off of me this month.)
Jaesun - 1115858
I just know for myself, I spent several days scouting out vendors who sell stuff at very good prices. I checked the usual Market Towns, and some of the near by ones too. I now have a spreadsheet titled The Vendors Who Sell Stuff For Good Prices and I buy all my stuff from them.

I do check other vendors from time to time, like I was just in Aerie, and happened upon a vendor I hadn’t seen before. I clicked on the vendor and immediately scrolled down to recipes. And just like all the other times I do check, I looked at the prices, and said LOL nope! And closed the window and left. Never to return. :)
Vladamir Begemot - 1115952
One thing that I think would really help is using the town crier to ping vendors that have the item you are looking for. But the bandwidth to check all vendors at once is probably too much, might not be doable at all.
2112Starman - 1115964
Its actually a good thing believe it or not. Not for you and I selling things but for the economy. People are dumping massive volumes of gold into crafting during 2x crafting. I sell ornates so my sells suck but if I was farming and selling ore and wood, I would be making a fortune right now.

Try finding some wood for sale right now. If you do, it has increased 2x in the past 2 months. This is because there are items made of wood in crafting that give a LOT of XP and people are chain crafting them. If you doubt it, I have 100 catapults sitting in my house right now as a trap for someone who walks in the door. Im also having a hard time now finding ore.
Spoon - 1115993
However the old suggestion (which you have in your list) in that one could add one sentance to each vendor which can be viewed at the town crier would be relatively easy to implement and would improve finding things by a huge amount.
That way one could advertise the way it is supposed - at the town crier - then visitors can keep the lot list open and set the compass point to places one would like to visit.
Gurdrith Agraos - 1116024
As a new player I feel like everything is overpriced. Perhaps it's because I assume the vendors in the starting areas are specifically there to rip me off, or perhaps it's because I was making maybe 100 gold a day in profits after training and such. If we as new players had a better understanding of standard market pricing then I feel items would be moving a bit quicker in those regions.
alioth - 1116039
Same. Working hard to lower prices. I paid 10-15k per for bowyer recipes to get started making bows, cause I couldn’t find them cheaper anywhere. Do like @Jaesun is doing and make your sheet of goto vendors, and price check with the new pricing tool.
Vladamir Begemot - 1116050
First, note that you can and should IMO get by on your starter gear for a long Tim, with the exception of your weapon.

If you want to get gear, the public vendors often have it for a give away price because someone is dumping their mediocre crafting stuff. If you see a meteoric, bronze, carpacian etc piece for under a few thousand gold it's probably a good deal.

Use ctrl to see if it is exceptional. If it is, it's worth 4x a normal piece as only one in four is exceptional.

At S Mart if you see a non exceptional piece, it is priced at under the crafting cost. Exceptionals are over. We put more non exceptional pieces in new player areas.

Then use ctrl to see how many masterworks and enchants the item has. It cost the crafter 1000 gold roughly for each of those. That includes the failures, so expect to pay a bit more for the ones with no failures.

If you want to message me in game I can tell you how much it cost the crafter to make the item vs the opportunity cost of just selling the materials.
Arradin - 1116056
..I was going to write a long complicated post, but i´ll just say this: That is not how an economy work.

Please realise that its SUMMER, and now when people are slowly starting to return to normal, game numbers picks up

( I Notice good sales )
Gurdrith Agraos - 1116080
Thank you for your response, that puts things in a different perspective for me. I actually stopped by the public vendor in Resolute when I first started and grabbed a bronze 6 long sword and a 2 meteoric. I’ve been running with those for a while but the durability on the meteroic is down to 11 and I’d like to replace it since the broken weapon icon is always there and it’s driving me crazy.

I’m nearing GM in blades and bringing in a much higher cash flow now, should I be buying new armor, saving for a plot or something else? I’m currently at a rent free house in Knight’s Watch so I’m not pressed for housing at the moment. I’ve eyed a few pieces I’ve wanted but I’m sitting at 20k right now and any piece that I want is around that price. I just don’t understand if it’s worth the grind to pay for them or if it’s smarter to wait.

Is S Mart the town or are the vendors spread all over? I just got done visiting a S Mart vendor in Aerie but didn’t see much I could use. That name keeps coming up so I feel more comfortable visiting those vendors and I’m curious if people are just renaming the vendors to associate with what seems to be a reputable name.
Vladamir Begemot - 1116102
You're welcome. S Mart is my vendors and I have a town by Resolute.

You're past the level where you should be browsing that one, it's aimed at new players. You will want to head into the Central Brittany urban sprawl and do some serious window shopping through the many towns there, or just keep checking the pvs for a while. You could pick up a basic meteoric sword and then get someone to do the work on it. That's a gamble, but the crafters life is a gamble so it is what it is.

You could repair that sword to almost max for 1 Coto, but it sounds like you should buy a new, long term one.

Re gold, if you look on Steam I wrote a guide for how to make gold in game. Some quick ways to increase you wallet is to sell off any virtue gear, frost Geist skulls, and Banners that you don't want. Also now is a great time to sell any wood you've been collecting.

When you're low on cash, don't salvage trash weapons, sell them. It adds up quick.

If you're a crafter I often have work that needs doing, message me if you see me in game and I may have something you can make gold with.
Jaesun - 1116148
Most of the stuff is way over price and junk. Just spend some time shopping around! There’s a lot of beautiful decorated towns.

Hell, just today I ran next door to the town near by, and now on my list I have 2 new vendors I will DEFINITELY buy from! Holy crap the prices we good! :D
Canterbury - 1116158
While keeping an eye on the levers of an economy is smart in any MMO, and tweaking when required, what the game really needs to make the economy zing is... a population.

We're beyond pretending everything's OK in the population department, so let's just put it on the table. Vendors would sell more stuff if there were more people playing the game.
Lord Trady of Blix - 1116183
I would highly recommend not selling quest items as they should be pride of place in your home making you feel you've accomplished stuff. You'll easily waste all that money you make off them too.
Dhanas - 1116195
Honestly I noticed increased selling the last 2 month, it depends a lot from how many vendor you have, what is the position, what are the stuffs you are selling, and what is the price. Atm I am using my vendors in New Heaven, vendors in Crafter town, and 1 vendor in Brit Mart, just sold my Britanny alleys spot, where I get lot of traffic and I am not using at all the vendor who I have access in Novia Market. So i am just using POTs and I am honestly selling much more than before in those vendors, I just restocked them and reduced a bit prices keeping them competitive with the rest of the market.

I have to say that prices of crafted items dropped a lot, cause you don't broke anymore item while crafting, so, unless you have realy epic items, they don't worth too much, and common items are not selling too much, cause there are realy a lot around. Same for the artifacts market that is also not going too good, cause there is a overflow of them in the market, so you earn more money salvaging it for essences.
To the other hand raw materials, reagents, epic crafted stuffs, recipes, and rare items are selling realy good, atleast in my spots.
Zeddicus Zorander - 1116204
We can all agree that there needs to be more drains in the economy, the value of money has fallen, we need more demand, and a higher scarcity of resources... I'd like to see a limit on the amount of resources that can be produced daily, a redo of the crafting value of objects, example you put into an item 25k worth of items the final vendorable value will be 25k...Maybe we need a real economist working on the SOTA economy...Just saying...even just a consultation on how to fix the current situation... really a well oiled economy can survive can scale on population size without issues...especially a computer generated one...I really enjoy being a merchant in game and also an adventurer but lately my merchant RPing hasn't been satisfied at all...

Please understand my ideas are not thought out at all they're just me rambling on the topic of economy, because it feels broken, and I know I'm not alone on this subject. I know there are always those who will make ti work no matter what, they pour hundreds of dollars into the game and magically they sell stuff... Unfortunately the average Joe Merchant who cannot throw thousands of dollars into multiple CF vendors and properties simply can't compete.
Dhanas - 1116212
You don't need to throw lot of money in the game for having different selling spots, first you can buy vendors with igg and also there are pots with shared vendors and people who share their vendors, I have Many vendors shared with friends.
I do agree about the value of crafting items, sometimes i spend 20k for craft an item that worth 10, at the same time it's hard to Balance this because prices of resurces are done by players so they constantly change.
Mac2 - 1116216
I started on a basic account, won a 2 story kobald row bundle from a telethon, all the rest of the deeds and cf vendors I have gotten with IGG, and 2 from trade for exp. Dont need thousands of dollars if you can do thousands of hours :) .
Elwyn - 1116251
The first number or the second? The first number can be repaired with a repair kit (get them either from a weapons vendor NPC or loot drops), then you can either apply the repair kit directly to the item, or go to a crafting table and put it on along with the item and click on Repair. The main difference is that you get some crafting XP for using the table, and I think it also repairs more.

Been there, done that, on FFXI. When that happens, it sets a base price for what a player can sell an item to someone else. All that does is make crafters grind for gold and skills and sell to NPCs, because it's not worth selling the item to a player for less than that. It would also set a base price for the materials that make the item, because it wouldn't be worth using them for anything less than making stuff to sell to NPCs. The NPC buy-back price shouldn't be the pittance it is now, but it also shouldn't be anywhere near what a player will play for the materials. That's a great way to mess up an player-driven crafting economy.

If the value (when sold to one of the "tag match" NPCs) is more than about 40 or so, I'll sell it, otherwise I'll salvage. Some items with a high base price sell for a lot more when repaired, which is a good use for piles of repair kits you might have lying around from loot.
Kain Darkmoor - 1116415
This is something I have been preaching about for a while. There is basically no reason to buy anything when gear never loses durability. I have pretty much opted out of the economy at this point, almost nothing that you can craft sells for more than the raw materials crafting time are worth.
Adam Crow - 1116461
That site allows upload of every mail that you discard from your mailbox.

If you take the actual receipt and put it in a chest then you will not be able to automatically upload it.

Every time you discard a mail from your mailbox it records all the data into a file on your computer. Then you just go to the website and upload those files whenever you want to see your updated purchases and sales.
Rowell - 1116475
Holy cow! 1000g per enchant? Man, I'm hugely under valuing my 4 to 9 items (charge 400 - 3500).
Earl Atogrim von Draken - 1116482
What i realized is that sales in PoTs are much higher than in Story towns.
that_shawn_guy - 1116486
i think if we did a better job of communicating the true costs of those 10 items (mats for skill gain, failures, etc), crafting could be a lot more profitable.

if you work with someone like @Arieus who will custom make an item with only complimentary masterworks & enchants with the highest possible durability, the general ideas of "value" for such an item is off by at least one or two decimal places.
Brass Knuckles - 1116506
People selling stuff like scrolls cotos silver gold do pretty well, crafted goods dont turn as well and pet collars dont turn artifacts are dime a dozen.

It really depends on what your selling and the demand. There is a problem in areas of the economy take pets for example you buy one pet whistle since its nearly impossible to lose ur pet and collars dont wear or break there is no circular cycle. Cotos and teleports people use like crazy so those vendors do quite well.
Vladamir Begemot - 1116550
Don't forget that a 10 also has the added cost of failures built into the random number crafting. So that one that you trashed, if you're ever going to "make a living as a crafter", has to be covered by a higher price on the on that turned out great.
Rowell - 1116643
The vendors that tick me off are the ones that take regular, NPC store bought recipes (you know, the ones that sell everywhere for 250g) and intersperse them with other dropped recipes, and price them at 1000-7000g each. Talk about slimy business practices.
Brugas - 1116679
Hey, I do that regularly, well not for 7k, but for 750gp to 1k gp depending, especially tracking down regional recipes and selling them elsewhere. It's all about convenience and some people would rather pay for it than run around gathering them when they could be doing other things. Generally it'll be x3 or x4 for new/hot items. Though I did notice this last release, a lot of recipes were valued way up there only to be replaced with normal prices (250gp to 1000gp) a few days later. The shogun lightstring recipe was 1200gp from vendors, wooden round table was 750gp, and Faded Novia Canvas was 5,600gp from npc vendors... only to be changed to 250gp for recipes and 1,000gp for the canvas, so my early prices were double until the changes. It's just business, though I try not to go crazy with the inflation.

Takes time and effort to run around gathering some of those recipes too... even with a huge friends list it still seems there are hardly any players in the NE part of the map (Drachvald region) or South (Perennial Coast) a good bit of the time, so you still have to foot it and all that time adds up.
2112Starman - 1116710
Ill tell everyone a secret.. shhhhh... between us to help you out.

If you sell any crafting mats right now at market price, you are gonna sell a TON of it. Sell wood, ore, leather, cotton, suit, skel bones, Beatles. Bamb... these will sell practically instantly, especially if you market.

If you are selling pledge and ornate right now it depends. Ornate's are all over the place, the more rare it is (discontinued) the higher chance and the more gold.

Pledge items depend on how high the pledge is. The higher the pledge them faster it will sell at higher prices (I can tell you duke items sold for an INSANE amount of gold)

Artifacts and such... there's a billion of them around on a billion vendors. Only a few real specific useful items sell (like Fleet flute, harp of invigoration, lich ring). The vast majority are common drops now and many of us have a dozen sitting in our chests. Learn the rare items.

Recipes are kinda odd. They clearly still sell but I actually think there is a ring in the game that dominates this market. I see them on ever vendor. the prices seems overly priced. I would suggest you sell them for half what the monopoly sells for and they will probably end up buying them from you pretty quick for resale themselves.

Everything else like weps and armor that arnt created by a person with 140 in the skills just odnt sell. You may make sales but you wont make your money back. Teleportt scrolls, recall scrolls... nope, they are common drops now and most of us have thousands in the bank. House... haven't seen them sell at all.

If in doubt about how much is sold out there and for how much, check out the site:

So if you are need of gold and a sale start with this, go farm 500 gold or silver ore and sell it. Drop the price 1-2 gold below the average... it will be gone in minutes (advertise on Discord). Because, again the fact is economy in this game is insanely strong and gold prices have not changed since a few months after persistence.
Jaesun - 1116729
Or just mine for tin and sell it and be a millionaire in days....
Cora Cuz'avich - 1116733
Yeah, after posting that my sale are down, things are back up again. I don't get huge sales, but I live in a reasonably well populated POT, mostly deal in materials and other gathered items, and sell slightly below market value, because tons of stuff sitting on a vendor doesn't do me any good. Well, below what I think market value is. I get lazy about looking around, and occasionally find prices have dropped below what I'm selling for. I do well with reagents, because I don't use a lot of them, and sell them for just slightly above what I could get selling them to an NPC. Though a recent run on rotting flesh and sulfurous ash have left my supply super low. But I have spider silk out the wahoo. I blew through a ton of wood stock after brewing went live, so that was nice, though I can't keep up with demand now. I don't sell a lot of ore, but I lowered my prices a bit recently due to the market, so hopefully that helps. Scrolls and repair kits fly off my vendors within hours; I sell only what I find at 60 a pop.
Woodchuck - 1116745

This game is huge in terms of items. It takes quite some time to learn the market and to actually identify what are npc items being resold by a player vendor. I would say recipes are among the hardest to tell if they are regular npc recipes because there's so many of them.

As I play and learn more about the market, I can clearly see 3 classes of sellers:
  1. Sellers who price very modestly (less than 5% of all sellers, consistently lower than average market price, and/or almost at cost)
  2. Sellers who price fairly/reasonably (90% of all sellers, average market pricing)
  3. Sellers who are just a--holes (5% sellers, consistently sell at much higher prices, ludicrous pricing)
This is my favorite a--hole:

  1. 550g for each beer: [​IMG]
  2. 49k gold for a crafted novia map: [​IMG]
Bottom line is, buyer beware.

Some real a--holes out there.
nonaware - 1116746
I do a lot of my selling to buy orders recently and there are some really shady resellers out there, but for the most part its a mixed bag when it comes to selling to buy orders as one buyer will have fair prices on some things and bad prices on others.
Barugon - 1116757
What game are you playing? Because there gear in SotA gets damaged and ultimately needs replacing.
Barugon - 1116760
Also be aware of a-holes that have COTO repaired their gear a few times and are trying to sell it for high prices. I've seen this a few times.
Cora Cuz'avich - 1116761
I don't know. I'm usually willing to forgive pricing; you sell things for the most you possibly can. It's pretty rare for somebody to have cornered the market on a thing in SotA, so you can't blame a seller because the buyer didn't look around to see what something cost elsewhere. If I intend to sell something regularly, I'll look around to see what the average price is. If it's a one-off thing I got as a drop, I'll usually just guess. I tend to guess low, but you never know. The first few artifacts I found I had way overpriced, because I didn't really know which were more valuable, so I was pricing based on what I'd seen artifacts going for, even though I thought I was listing them on the low end. But 99% of what I sell is stuff I got while playing, and I could honestly give two craps about what price I get for things I have no use for. I surprised the hell out of a neighbor when he mentioned being bummed about missing out on the cultist cloth armor telethon reward, and I just gave him the set I got. I don't use it, likely won't ever use it, and he wanted it. If it was super rare, I might have asked for gold, but eh. It was something I just happened to get, so I didn't particularly feel the need to charge for it.
Woodchuck - 1116767

There's no guarantee that someone will have reasonable prices for all items they are selling/ordering.

As a buyer, the only way to protect yourself is to shop around as much as you can, and do this regularly to have a sense of the going market prices, in order to spot the good deals from the bad ones.

It's a lot of effort and time for sure, so to each their own on this.
Woodchuck - 1116775
Sure. I get that. Sometimes honestly people just don't know what to price things so they can price things badly.

But i think we all know who the a-holes are in the game. Some of them are the big sellers in the game. They are very knowledgeable about prices. And true, if a seller didn't do their homework and bought something way overpriced, it's their own fault in the end. But you can't deny that the seller is also an a-hole to prey on such players.

To me it's clear. There are some real a-holes in this game.
Adam Crow - 1116810
You make some great points here, but that's a bit of an exaggeration. My crafting skills are not even close to 140 and I sell a ton of armor. In the 80-100 range you can make some very nice equipment. The additional points you get going from 100-140 really aren't worth the xp cost to be honest. It's all about marketing, vendor locations and knowing which options to choose for each specific item.

Junk to one player could be perfect for another. Finding the options that work for more players can really help push more sales as well. If you create something that only works for one build, it's obviously going to be much harder to sell.

Yeah, that's always a bummer. I personally never list any items with major repairs. Even if its an epic piece of equipment and priced fairly, most people won't notice the major repair and will be disappointed. I save those items to sell face to face so that I can explain exactly what the buyer is getting.
2112Starman - 1116820
Ya, I agree. I have gm in most crafting now and can make things that are like 10 to 12 pretty easy so thats what I use. Still even then I have put probably 6000-10000 gold into them myself (6K usually in silver and gold) and I have never found that I can sell them for what I put into them (mostly because 90% of them end up with lame stats from a bad enchant roll which only allows me to pick 40 health). So what I do is just use them for my own gear. I cant afford 16 gears for 250,000 gold and to be honest, I haven't found a PvE reason to need it. I farm at times now in Ulfeim (tier 8 ) with store gear and no stats.
2112Starman - 1116833
Most sellers seem to want too much for stuff. There is a bit of an oligopoly in the game for sellers.

Since Im still selling of my massive trove of add-on store gear I bought to decorate my old keep lot that I sold, I basically for the past year took the price of 3700 gold per $1 I paid and throw it up on my vendor at that. Ive messed up sometimes such as thinking the Jabbering Birtha sold for $20 in the add on store and was retired, so someone recently told me about that and guess what, it didnt sell). I stuff sits for a long time then I'll go back up all the time, pull it off the vendor and drop the price a few thousand gold (but every time I do this I literally take a real financial loss, but I dont care because Im trying to off load stuff, not run a business). This works because stuff does slowly sell.

Telethon rewards? I price them depending on how old they are. Usually start for months at $5 x 3700 gold per item of in game gold. If they are really old, the price goes up. Its insane that I find some of the new items on vendors at 100,000 gold when I have them up at 18,500 (although if its a really cool item in demand, Ill raise the price)

But in the end, 90% of vendors I look at have stuff no one wants to buy or are dramatically over priced.

Market forces should lower prices but the oligopoly kinda sets them. I always sell stuff for less then them and usually make the sale.
Elwyn - 1116870
That sounds like the demand pricing on NPC vendors at work. It's not very well known simply because there is barely enough population these days for it to happen, but if too much of the same item is bought from an NPC, the price goes up for a while. That's exactly what happens on the first day or two of a release when a recipe is only sold in one place. It used to happen all the time shortly after persistence when people still hung around Owls Head. People were paying absurd prices for crafting fuels and possibly not even noticing.

But the basic point is that some people don't know where to find, or can't be bothered to travel for, the recipes that are only sold in one or two places, so it's worth 1000-2000 for them not to have to run across the world. Nobody is forcing them to pay it, and some people just don't like running around the world. It's the only "regional economy" that has actually worked in this game so far. But I have also seen player vendors selling those recipes literally across the street from the NPC vendor that sells them.

This game basically has open-world full-loot economic PvP, and opting out is as simple as don't buy anything from anyone you don't know. It's not quite EVE, but caveat emptor.

Yesterday I saw a player vendor with maybe 50 such monthly reward items, all at 300,000 each. Of course a high price doesn't mean they expect to get it; it can also be a way of showing off stuff. Apparently.

Nothing since last night, but the past few days it went from nothing to moderate. I finally had extra gold for the first time in maybe two weeks.
Sol Stormlin - 1117231
It's possible that because of double XP, people are leveling faster thus able to get artifacts themselves and don't need to buy off others. One of the best ways to get good crafting XP is to mine. So more people are mining and don't need to buy the ore. Also you have those who will upgrade your gear as long as they provide the resources. And there is nothing wrong with doing those things. I'm not sure what everyone is expecting from everyone else. Half of the artifacts are crap because the benefits are negated by the negatives.
kaeshiva - 1117273
Personally a lot of people 'go around' the gold economy because its kinda ridiculous and inconsistent. Like the prices of raw resources exceeding the cost of finished products by 10x (at least for gear). While I'm willing to pay a reasonable markup on consumables if I don't want to make them myself, some of the prices out there are just ridiculous. I look at it and think, why would I pay that much for this item when I can go get it myself and make it far more quickly than I could earn the amount of money they are charging? I'm part of a small group of players who trade materials-for-output in most things and we just sell excess - at very, very cheap.

I don't really have a problem moving things on vendors, even in my obscure pot, but I price it to move. I'm kind of a wholesaler in that regard, I know people are buying things and going and relisting it in their market town for more, and that's okay. I got my money and I can go about my day and don't have to do the vendor management thing or the price watching thing or whatever. I give myself a little margin and I'm good to go.

And people have gotten wind of that, so now more often than not I have people setting up a pre-order or barter and we don't even use the vendor.

The gear market though, I agree, is an absolute joke. Its not that we need more drains - the stuff isn't selling because its crap, not because people don't need it - it would not sell anyway because making crap is something anyone can do and there is far far too much of it languishing on vendors across Novia.

What we need is more control over the crafting process so people aren't churning out crap. There's only so many "low level players" that "this piece of crap might be ok for" who might buy it at 5% of the creation cost.

Its one or the other.
We need something to do with the crap (IE, reasonable vendor payment for it, or give it to NPC blacksmith who rewards us with recipes, or some sort of turn in system) (Consumption)
We need to make a lot less crap.

I recently upgraded my boots and ended up with over 50 pairs of unsuitable boots, half of which were "ok ish" and went on a vendor where they will sit for 6 months at 500 gold each until I get irritated with it and the other half of which I threw in a box against some future hope of something to do with them other than sell boots that have a craft cost of 6k (bronze) for 30g ea to the NPC.
Kain Darkmoor - 1117406
3000 hours in and I have never had to replace a piece of gear because it was broken to the point of not being repairable.