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yinki2 - 1144690
to attract new players
jammaplaya - 1144700
I voted no because I think the best model is free to play with a cash shop and no subscription fees because it allows people to play for free if they want, but also allows people who have less time to play to catch up.

Sure, people using the cash shops might be getting a bit of an advantage in a sense, but it's typically limited to cosmetic items on PvP based games, and everyone benefits from the rake so long as the company uses it to fund development.

Raffles for the top items are a nice addition to the f2p cash shop no sub model when the tickets are purchasable by both money and game currency. IMO it's a fair way to ensure everyone gets a chance at the best things.
Arradin - 1144703
No, people have the option to flag pvp all they want already, and full loot is horrible ;)
jammaplaya - 1144705
Full loot is awesome actually. Loot cant realistically pass through the ethereal plane and having it do so just to cater to less skilled players is a real nuisance.
jammaplaya - 1144706
Full loot is awesome actually. Loot can't realistically pass through the ethereal plane and having it do so just to cater to less skilled players is a real nuisance.
yinki2 - 1144710
full loot encourage crafting ... dont wear what u cant afford to lose.

it may attract many new players :)
Gorthyn - 1144725
It won't attract new players. The whole notion that full loot open world PvP is something that everyone wants is in fact a myth perpetuated by the small minority that actually like the idea.
Lars vonDrachental - 1144726
I think full lot would be an option if the chances to win a fight would be even but I think in a classless system this will never be the case. In SotA it is the more you play the stronger you are and the more likely you will win against other avatars. This would result that “young” avatars would be forced to just wear garbage as they will most likely be looted during a game session while “old” avatars could wear relatively fearless high end gear and would not just be more powerful because of the number of their skills also because of the gear they can dare to wear. This would also mean that all content would have to be designed to support the newish in crap gear dressed avatars resulting in too easy content for the “old” ones who can get that way impressive wealth.
If you ask for something like full loot you have to ask first for predefined classes with set skill trees that are offering benefits but also weaknesses or a fixed skill cap...and I do not think SotA will go into this direction.
Spungwa - 1144747
I see zero reason to have "a new server" in this game.

You could just have different scenes that implement different rules. So by all means have a full loot PvP scene.

oplek - 1144753
What's more, Albion Online kept being touted as an amazing superior model because it's full-loot pvp. That doesn't seem to be saving it, in the long run.
Arradin - 1144754
Ultima Online has also had a full loot pvp server since forever, its pretty much dead, and the people who play there are mostly not there for the pvp.
Nietzsche - 1144764
Sounds good but only if you make the pvp server permadeath aswell :)
Gyzarus - 1144767
You will only end up only the pvpers, without any sense of the world of shroud of the avatar, I would suggest this, let the pvper and non pvper have something they want from each other, I guess many people like to see a total loss of someone effort to make themselves happy. If it's a sporty type I am 100% go for it, but if its just make someone else miserable for playing this game,I will not enjoy this game at all, I am not trying to make everyone fuzzy and warm, but to make people to realize what they can actually create in this game, until they realize the 'real game" is not just endless grind to be super strong, but to be who they really want to be in in a different world, and see what others can see in you.
CarlNZ - 1144772
Nope. There's a reason UO was more popular after they split forced pvp off.
Magnus Zarwaddim - 1144779
You are going to get a lot of "no" answers. Please remember that, although not a perfect solution, this is why we have PvP zones. Once sieges come into play, along with whatever other scenarios they can create, PvP should pick up a bit. It will, however, never be a main point of the game - at most an activity that is voluntary.
yinki2 - 1144863
at least that prove all pvper are gone from this forum ....

not that am good at pvp nor i enjoy kicking players...its just that no risk farming basic ressources is boring and repetitive. The only risk is atos nerf hammer.
Greyfox - 1144864
Yes, if we can make the current server NO PVP outside of the Obsidian Arena.
kaeshiva - 1144869
I voted maybe on this, for the simple reason that if there was a PvP Full Loot Server, then all the people who keep trying to inflict PvP on the rest of us, would go play -over there-.
And then whenever someone came crying about PvP we could say, look! Look! there's a PVP server go -over there->

I'm joking. Mostly.
Rufus D`Asperdi - 1144871
The concept that Full Loot, Open World PvP is the way to have a successful game has been proven false time and time again, yet it keeps being touted as a viable business model.
It is the Trickle Down Economics of the gaming world.
Rufus D`Asperdi - 1144874
Except then they'd complain because there wasn't anyone there.
xadoor - 1144876
Are these the results you were expecting? The whole reason I dont pvp is a just dont have the stomach to lose my stuff. Its just not fun(for me)
Boris Mondragon - 1144878

Brother; why don’t you try a new poll asking for factions and contested (PVP) zones with double resources, from mobs and mats. This could entice new players and give us an endgame. This is what will bring in new players and a purpose to all the skill raising and grind. R/Boris/El Pirata.
kaeshiva - 1144882
Why wouldn't there be anyone there? All I keep seeing over and over again is that PvP is the magical cure all for everything and we need to make everyone do it and we need to make it "fair" so that people who put in years developing their character have no advantage in stats, and that if griefers could roam the world doing what they wanted to anyone at any time this would create a wonderful world full of "danger" and "risk" that would make the game as a whole significantly better.

If this is true, then I would expect a full loot pvp server to be bursting at the seams with popularity. I don't really understand the "no item shop" ask, setting that aside for the time being if such a magical world of PvP truly is the answer and will bring people into the game as people think it will, then by all means, lets make one, allow free 1-way transfers of PvPers with all their stuff, we shall have tearfilled goodbyes for at least a day or so and then we can all go about our business and let the PvP server help fund the game by giving players who want that ruleset a place where they can have it.

All sarcasm and whimsy aside, the "Always PvP Everywhere Full Loot No Restrictions" vs. "PvE player" mindset is an irreconcilable one - the only workable compromise is separation. If a second server with that ruleset means that we stop seeing all the pressure to inject more pvp into the base game, or pressure to "add pve benefit" for pvp flagging, then I'm 100% in favor.
Greyfox - 1144929
Full loot open world PVP, and to a lesser extent current SOTA PVP is similar to unrestricted capitalism. The top 1% would work harder, work smarter, exploit resources, and rule the 99%.

It’s great for the 1%,the rest not so much.

Ironically the 1% in a virtual world are undoubtedly the 99% in real life. How else would they have the time to be a top PVPer?

I think of Animal Farm where the pigs take over the farm. Virtual capitalist moving into the farmhouse after deposing the farmer.
Scoffer - 1144934
Looking at this from a logical point of view on what the PVPers already have:
Flag anytime without restriction in any zone
Bonus xp when flagged
7 Ruins that are zones that auto flags you for pvp
4 Shardfalls that auto flag you for pvp
1 full huge dungeon that auto flags you for pvp
1 full open pvp housing zone
Scheduled events via the obsidian trials where you can gain unique loot only available in those zones.
Basements can be flagged for pvp only
Player owned towns that can be set for pvp only.
Ability to loot random items your conquered foe.
All the PvE content which is open to everyone

And what do we see time and again on these forums?
No one is in pvp zones.
No one is flagged
Obsidian trials are empty

Occam's razor suggests no one wants to pvp.

This is certainly a case of flogging a dead horse. The horse has been dead for months and is now just a rotting husk and people are still trying to beat it with their ineffectual pvp artifacts (that no one has because they don't pvp)
GrayFog - 1144939
I voted no.

Not because i hate PvP or such.

I voted no mainly because we really can't and shouldn't split the current community.
Cordelayne - 1144947
Selfishly, I voted no because I absolutely hate PvP and folks who want to do so can already flag and have at it all they want.

The more important and fundamental reason I voted no, is this:

Greyfox - 1144949
A PVPer will make the excuse PVP isn’t successful in SOTA because we never implemented real PVP. Just like socialists and communists who will say their systems only failed because real socialism/communism wasn’t implemented.

No they fail because they DO NOT WORK in the real or virtual worlds.
Rufus D`Asperdi - 1144954
What's missing from this list is the magic sauce: Sheep to kill... over and over and over again...
Greyfox - 1144956
PIGS always need someone to control and slaughter.
Feeyo - 1144994
I voted no, I love it how it is now. You have the option to go PvP flagged if you want. Even get some exp bonus if you do, but with the dangers of being PK'ed.
golruul - 1145011
Yes please, but only to the full-loot, full-pvp separate server part.

That way when it fails spectacularly (and it will 100% guarantee fail), all these people saying this kind of pvp is the cure-all for everything can finally shut up once and for all.

But they won't, obviously, because whatever is done isn't the "true Scotsman" way of PvP.
Malimn - 1145039
Why create a new server for less than 10% of the population who PVP's? Sounds like a waste of funds to me.
Nelzie - 1145110
This idea is never going to die, because of that tiny minority.

All the Full Loot games that have attempted to open in the last ... 15 years either shutdown or completely changed things to have a separate full loot server and a regular no loot server, the latter of which always has more people on it.

If there was a Full Loot, open world ALL PvP server, all the time, everyone would be walking around, looking essentially the same. Nobody would bother trying to walk around in cool looking gear or kit, unless they were the top of the top dogs with so much time on their hands that they can build their character it something that can stand in one place, doing nothing, with two decently specc'd opponents just barely damaging them.

It's a ridiculous proposition.
Nelzie - 1145113
Probably FAR less than 10% of the population....
Nelzie - 1145116
The messed up thing is that EVERY failed game like that can be pointed out and they will mentally gymnastics their way around claiming it just wasn't OpenPvP ENOUGH! or some other outlandishly silly claim.
Nelzie - 1145117
I would participate in PvP for things like that and... I hate PvP.

But... I would craft out a series of "throw away" weapons and equipment that I would use for PvP in order to "lose" nothing of serious import while taking part in those PvP activities.

Don't need to pay ransom, if you don't have anything worth being ransomed on you.
Feeyo - 1145157
Like they say in Dutch: You can not pull feathers from a bold chicken. :)
majoria70 - 1145164
Imo splitting the player base to an either or system will not benefit this game. Now adding more interesting reasons to pvp would help most like making the trials a call to players to fight against factions. Many games have pvp events to call to arms but pvp is not necessarily all that a player will do. Perhaps some do but then maybe this is not the game for them.

I would vote for a reason to pvp and not just loot reasons any day over just full loot and a pvp server being the reason. We already can do pvp all we want but still that is not the incentive that calls out to many players to do it yet. I feel the trials was a missed opportunity but who knows we are still young and the devs are by no means done with this game.

I vote for a Wintergrasp experience for the trials. A call out to arms when the timer is reset several times a day and the announcement the trials are starting happens. As a usually not pvp player I did go into Wintergrasp in WoW for an hour or two everyday and had a great time doing the quests and attempting to secure the area hordes against alliance. We have Upper Tears but we have no Winter Grasp ;)
Cordelayne - 1145197
Yes, but can you put lipstick on said pigs? ;)
Sylence - 1145211
Yes do it, and I would never go there, so you can drop pvp on this server. Trammel anyone?
Silverti - 1145224
maybe I guess... but the PvP ship said on SOTA a long time ago now.
Keldorn of the Vale - 1145229
I vote yes. I think it may bring back some hardcore UO fans! We are in much need of a player injection !!!! Maybe we can bring in a faction system much like UO's? I am not a pvper (my reaction time is too slow and I get the shakes easily). But I always liked the fights in felucca I'd watch comfortably as a ghost.
Synergy Blaize - 1145233
@Sylence I truly love your forum name :)
Sylence - 1145266
Schneider DragonFang - 1145278
Voted no. If they did make pvp full loot, I would rather it remain on one server and artificially cap all pvpers at lvl 80 in adv lvl and skills.
Let pve players enjoy the grind of going to 100 and beyond.
This would be a good lead into pvp with new trial players, already hitting their max of lvl 50. By then they should know if they want to buy in and continue to lvl 80 to enjoy pvp.
Or hell borrow the system from albion and label pvp zones with increasing consequences.
Greyfox - 1145324
Depends upon the amount of available alcohol.
Morgoth redbeard - 1145422
i voted no if they want full loot why not implent an option for it in this game make it so full loot only work if both set on full loot and so on to make an intire new server that is emty i feal is not needed you can put all that if they wanted in to here if there was enuf players wanting it just make an option wen you start game to go full loot and warn that char will not be able to regret the desishon if they klick that option

then make all that is full loot shine othere collor then the rest of the players
Nelzie - 1145563
Yeah, give those types a "PVP " marker so that folks can know who are set to full loot and who isn't.

Give the Full Loot types an even greater XP Bonus and potentially some other bonus like a slightly enhanced skill learning speed of 2.5% or something. Then... those types can put their avatars where their mouths are.

I suspect though, that won't do anything to grow numbers, because the Full Loot PvP types typically just want to knock about lower powered players to lord over how much better they are.
Daedwax - 1145585
Ok so here is my issue. I actually have no problem with full loot pvp. When me and my friend started playing we we're under that impression and many others (Including Skill Cap) because SoTA was called the spiritual successor to UO ( although i'm not sure that was a tag Portalarium placed on it. ). So assumptions and willingness to PVP full loot aside, Why are the Obsidian Trials empty? I was really excited about this, went to pvp and... nothing... not a soul... and why after this would Portalarium continue to work on PVP? Why should they bother when their attempts go seemingly unrewarded and unnoticed? I'm all too happy to be wrong here, so please put me in my place.
Applerust - 1145629
No, 1 server. We need better PvP options and more incentive to PvP. The devs are working on it! :)
curt - 1145642
The closest to this that i could picture.
Each month we have a QA where we test things.
They could each month have an ironman server where everyone is PvP flagged and none can group.
you start from scratch and if you dies your char is deleted.
Have so in each scene is one score item? you can earn.
The winner is the one that at the end has survived and visited (and picked up) the most scenes.
Fungus - 1145648
I voted no; PvP as such is dead in SotA already and you won't attract new PvP'rs to the game without clear and targeted marketing which costs lots of money port don't have. Returning PvP'rs won't be enticed back either especially by making them pay a subscription for something many have already backed game and feel truly burnt from passed experiences from the nay sayers to current direction games going. A specific area anyone can go to PvP such as realm based via a chosen allegiance with defense and capture of structures and resources like other games would be far more positive step and I believe under consideration already by Chris.
Joe Zhudarak - 1145664
Sota´s instanced scenes are perfect to make all kinds of pvp/non pvp places, with different rulesets. For example, some scenes could be cap item power and advl level, others like ruins and shardsfalls are pvp only with no power restrictions.... this game doesn´t need another server but more polished pve and pvp content, optimization, and skills balance and more risk/return with better drops in pvp zones.
golruul - 1145761
There's a specific term for this: No True Scotsman fallacy. It goes something like:
  • Bob: All PvP-only MMOs fail.
  • Tim: They failed because X. No true PvP game does X
  • Bob: But game 1 didn't do X and still failed
  • Tim: Game 1 also did Y. No true PvP game does Y
  • Bob: But game 2 didn't do X and Y, but still failed.
  • Tim: Game 2 also did Z. No true PvP game does Z.
  • Bob: ....
Greyfox - 1145819
What the hell more incentive is needed? SOTA isn't developed to function as a PVP title. Crowfall is having trouble with PVP using Unity and they built from the ground up for pure PVP. Any game using Unity for PVP is a laughing stock. Crowfall, I hope they can make it work.

NOTHING implemented supporting PVP is popular. The brand new arena is dead, Blood Bay mostly dead, a handful of people visit The Fall, none of the far too many Shardfall scenes are populated, overworld PVP almost non-existent, what more proof is needed? Those PVPing scared and caused more people to anger quit than there were ever PVPers. Overall PVP is a net loss for this game, period.

PVP in SOTA is a DEAD END and the developers better realize it ASAP.

Personally I love PVP in OTHER games.
Nikko - 1145879
This is a pretty staggering result. I mean, I thought it would be lop-sided, but I didn't think it'd be THAT lop-sided. I voted no. It just isn't what a vast majority (obviously) of people want, and I do not believe it would bring a significant number of additional people in. In fact, I'd argue that there is a fair chance that it could hurt the overall numbers.