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Lace - 1158270
Just played a bit thursday and a few hours on saturday and holy moly is the durability going down on my stuff. This is with GM preservation in both and some effectiveness on my equipment.

I did not see anything in the notes.

Did anyone else notice this?
 
Jaesun - 1158271
Yes, my Spear that I crafted seems now to take crazy amounts of durability. Armor a little less.

They either changed something and didn’t tell us, or something is bugged.
 
SteelCore - 1158273
Usually i run around in add on store stuff because of that. And if i switch to crafted gear, i always think why is thr durability going down that fast.
For me, as a self providing crafter, its not worth to wear crafted gear for doing other stuff than the usual game play.
And there are still people demanding higher decay on crafted gear… shaking my head !
 
Lord Trady of Blix - 1158420
I noticed that as well. Also one of the things that made me :( this release.

Sometimes this game gets the balance on things that are fun vs annoying quite wrong

People will stop playing if a game becomes too much of a hassle, watch out.
 
wedrax - 1158477
Yep noticed this, was talking about today, and ye i said the same, didn't find anything about in patch notes.
 
Cordelayne - 1158508
Yep, I noticed that my obsidian longsword was getting completely demolished as was my Shield of Rok. My armor didn't really seem as affected, but wow sword and shield was getting worn out!
 
Tsumo2 - 1158558
200 repair kits later ....
 
Lesni - 1158573
Sounds like another 'balancing' thing.
Of course, without testing to see if it works.
If you ask why? The answer is "the math worked in the spreadsheet"

How many times have any of you played SOTA on a spreadsheet?
 
Ataniiq - 1158634
Seems like repair kits are dropping a butt tonne more.. if durability is consumed quicker.. this is a sure fire way to get people spending more COTO.
 
kaeshiva - 1158815
As if the durability loss wasn't already far too punitive...
I assume they just "forgot" to put this in the patch notes.
Losing faith here.
 
Ameresta Trilon - 1158822
Many patches ago there were comments from the devs indicating that the rate of gear decay would steadily increase over time. So technically they did warn us...
 
Gia2 - 1158827
IS this another under the hood balance stuff never mentioned or comunicated even with 4 streams per month?
30mins about publishing books and no infos about impacting things
 
wedrax - 1158836
I want gear be consumed each time a player type /dance or do any kind of silly emote. Really they increased of 70% the durability loss… that's just crazy, basically all the igg flow increased is not enough to buy or make again my gear:D

It's all a big joke:D
 
Kain Darkmoor - 1159995
I've noticed this as well. Probably another 'bug fix' that they implemented with no communication or mention in the patch notes.
 
Tila Tenderfoot - 1160006
I recall Chris said something about faster durability loss if repairs aren’t done on a crafting table.
 
Daxxe Diggler - 1160018
Where did Chris say that?
 
Tila Tenderfoot - 1160023
One of the livestreams?
 
EMPstrike - 1160025
I always repair on a crafting table. Is it the primary or secondary surability thats taking hits??
 
westonmc - 1160030
Release 41 notes

  • Explosive Potions: These can now be placed on the Utility Bar.
  • Gear Decay: Increased the rate at which things get damaged by 25%. We will probably keep creeping this value up as currently both from testing and player reports, stuff never needs replacing. We also will continue to evaluate armor vs weapon break rates which currently feel a bit off.
  • Knight Marshal Helm: Fixed Knight Marshal's Winged Helm to not break set bonuses.

Seems it is their intent that people have to replace gear at some interval in order to create a reciprocating economy, who knew?
 
wedrax - 1160047

We are to release 58... and btw 70% more decay on item then release 57 seem a joke. Basically mobs drop more, but not enough to replace the gear…. so… bah it's just a big joke , we need to farm to replace 1 piece of gear we are using; So i farm 1 day for a piece but in the while i break down all the other pieces…. Let's go all just dance parties!!!

P.S i Forgot to mention the lowered gathering resources %, just to make more easy craft and replace the gear, and the gear more effordable.

A presoppusition to call something game is it has to be fun.
 
Gia2 - 1160053
Can we get an Amen?
 
Arpanet - 1160064
this decay is devastating, I would be curious to know the reasons
@Chris plz
 
wedrax - 1160079
The maximum is the problem, so the second. That mean you can trashing an item like a bow evry 5 day, cause you need a mayor repair evry 2 day.
 
westonmc - 1160113
Buy cheaper gear, only use your best gear for hard ****, I dunno man, where are we getting this 70% more decay than r57 figure?
 
Jaesun - 1160245
Did anyone report this on the bug forum?
 
Boris Mondragon - 1160250
Here is my two cents on the reason:

1) Crafters complain that people don’t buy gear often enough.

2) Solution: let the crafters with 120 plus salvage get 50 pct resources back on what does not meet their specs and you do not need excessive decay. Melee is affected more than others especially those like me that use body slam on the “adjusted” mobs with double HP and doing double damage. Of course if they want to sell more COTOs then it’s been a plan all along. In short, between death decay and item damage we are changing this game to Shroud of the Masochist.
 
Cordelayne - 1160261
[​IMG]
 
Jaesun - 1160281
I just make my own stuff. Because all I ever see is completely overpriced garbage on Vendors.
 
Lace - 1160386
One of my favorite Halestorm songs .. Amen ... But this decay is not an Amen lol.

 
Barugon - 1160389
I make my own gear for one simple reason: I don't want to sport someone else's name. If I could remove the maker's mark then I'd be much more inclined to buy gear.
 
Innascual Inch - 1160623
I know this won't be popular, but I think reducing item durability (increasing its decay rate/thebrate at which it takes damage) is a good thing.

Armor and weapons just don't wear out prior to R58 - over the past month i've spent 2-3 hours a day adventuring and have only needed one major (COTO) repair on about half my gear.

At that rate I eouldn't need to replace my gear for 3-4 months.

Taht's 2-3 gear swaps a year. And that's only for my plate set - my Rise mage leather/chain melee set takes almost no damage at all.

Crafters need a purpose and melee characters need gold sinks to match the Mages reagent gold sink. We need reasons to chose to wear a set of mundane armor over epic threads when we set out on our adventures and our choices should have meaning and consequences.

A post above me said that the item damage is devastating - how so?
 
Mac2 - 1160635
That's the thing, if you do not play much or most time spend crafting, your not going to feel it as much as someone like me who is grinding everyday for 12 hours a day. you see how some people are saying they are doing major repairs every 5 days, and some that say they have only needed a major repair a few time since persistence. Now, grind time is not the only part of the equation, being ranged and not getting hit as often in your fights makes a big deference too. Sadly, I'm a control freak and want the agro of all the mobs so I can control them, keeps my party safer and often I kill faster as I am putting them into my aoes. This also means my gear is getting beat on a hell of a lot more then the rest of the party as well.

Then we get into weapons, the decay rate on an archer using rapid fire a lot is INSANE. I major repaired a bow from 50 max dura to 8 max dura in under a month, and that bow never had rapid fire and aimed shot masterworks, its very hard on average to get a bow with both of those MW's on it, I finally made my first one about 2-3 weeks ago, and I have made TON of bows.
 
Vladamir Begemot - 1160697
Mac, all respect to you, but if you're grinding 12 hours a day, how much are you pulling in in that time, converted to gold value? (I say Mats too, because I know you're a big crafter but mats is value).

You're saying you grind something like 360 hours a month (if you're doing it daily).

What is an acceptable amount of time when you should need to replace gear? 1000 hours? 2000 hours?

And how big is your stack of mats and gold in that time, the "it's now ok that I replace a piece of gear" time? Before you use it for other stuff, how much did the grinding pull in? Is this making you destitute?
 
Mac2 - 1160707
I dont gather mats anymore really, I buy them. Its not about making me poor, its about I made or bought an awesome piece of gear that usually means its got low durability that took a very long time to make and costed a ton, but its useless in less then a month when it took WAY over a month to get it.

If I made a bow that had crit damage rapid fire and aimed shot MWS with maj and min str and maj dex enchants (and if you craft you know how hard it is to get something like that), and it will only last a month? What would that bow be worth for sale from a crafter? 1 million coin? Do I want to spend a majority of my time making gear then I do actually using the gear?
 
Vladamir Begemot - 1160710
Alright so you're saying that it's useless in under 300 hours, but it took more than that to raise the money to purchase it? Or to hit the RNG values you were looking for?

And second question, are you grinding with the awesome pieces only on the hardest mobs or do you use your awesome gear all the time?
 
Mac2 - 1160719
I hardly ever fight weak stuff, but when I do I use founder gear and weak stuff, I do try and preserve my good gear, but I am pretty much always doing high end stuff where I want my best on to be the safest from dying, I lose over 4.2 mil on death.

ya, hitting the right stuff on gear is really hard, and trying to find really good stuff, well your paying a ton for it, and thats even IF you can find one. I have made TONS of bows, my bow MW skill is at 108. Out of all the bows I have ever made I have only had 1 that had imbued strings with aimed shot rapid fire MW and crit damage, and the enchants were the durability effectiveness and minor dex. As far as trying to find a bow like that for sale, no easy task.

I just want people to know there are many variables, and to try and think of others as well. Like playing 5 hours a month as a ranged mage vs melee mobs kiting them, then saying gear decay needs to go up because your gear is lasting forever leaves out the perspective of person who plays a lot, is melee and always getting hit, and does tanking for a group.
 
Aldo - 1160738
Stuff has to move for there to be an economy. I would be OK with the increased decay IF the difficulty of replacing good gear was reasonable. At present, as Mac2 says, that gear is almost impossible to get. How much time and money would a crafter with current design take to craft a good bow on the off chance someone would be willing to fork over even the production costs? It is for this reason I craft all my own gear. I have chests of replacements ready for personal use and would never even consider selling the stuff. I am forced to be a multi GM crafter and enhancer just to support my own melee play. Like Mac2, I buy all my mats now. I feel sorry for those just beginning. Back to the economy..... there is none for gear and the cause is the disgusting state of masterworking and enhancing among other things.
 
Vladamir Begemot - 1160771
Maybe this is a prelude to specializations and being able to pick your enhancement instead of RNG it. That should make the good stuff much more regular.

I am playing adventure time much more than the last time we had this discussion BTW, and a tank quite often. Last time I was but a carpenter, but now that combat is fun I'm drawn more to the call of the road.
 
wedrax - 1160808
Yeah ok, so if it's a prelude, let's wait that is up before do change like this one, cause with the "delayed" status on things of portalarium(maybe i will become grandfather in the while and i've not a son atm), people used as human experiment and changes maked without say nothing(instead of loose 2 hours about publishing book, that involve maybe minus then 1% of sota players and for sure will not draw more gamer in sota, speak of those nice things on livestream, oh ye but maybe many then will choose to don't spend the 5$)…. before the game has to been released, now it is released… but i wait some other argumentation from funboy; All here must understand a thing, each time one of us spend money support the game, pay a part of salary of person who WORK on that game and don't do it for charity or fun or just cause they are philantrophist that want make us play for free. So wake UP people, in my country when you get a salary to do something, you must do that at your best.

P.S. Just to be clear, me and many people do things for free to help sota grown, each times someone ask help, information and cooperation we say yes(like with list some day a go), like addons that can make easy or get real gamers and players, we are working on a quest helper addon , we are making an italian community site with all the feature and guide to the game to counter all the bad feedback that game had(and not without reason), cause we trust in the game and in the potential of the game, but for sure sometimes i think there is not a clue on about what to do and priority. And btw if we criticize some game features or change is just cause that's maybe is not a great choice.
 
majoria70 - 1160815
I am not liking an economy that counts on sales of armor being sold as a reason to play. We are definitely missing a variable here. Hmmm loss of durability being the reason is so not fun. With this not being as much of a tiered armor level type of game well in a way it is but still less fun. For me knowing my armor is going to need a Coto fix, many hours of grinding ores and mats, or tons of gold, and then rinse and repeat. We are missing a piece to make it more fun and exciting in the whole process.

Being mainly a armor Smith or weaponsmith is a choice of course but imo we are missing a backup plan and imo vendor and selling tools. Those little missing tools that make our items for sale more unique and able to stand apart.

Off the top of my head is we need the ability to sell little bags of goods with ability to click on them to see what the bag contains. Of course craft able grab bags too to sell secret goods also.

We need armor enamels already to sell little bags of armor sets. We need more abilities perhaps in specializations skills that give us more uniqueness in what we craft.

Durability hit after durability hit is only one way to FORCE a player market but I do feel it is bad enough as is and not the only way to keep our crafters busy and profitable. Plus it is very un-interesting and not fun over all.
 
Cordelayne - 1160929
[​IMG]
 
Cordelayne - 1160938
[​IMG]
 
Rowell - 1160940
Last night was the first time since this weekend that I had a chance to test out the stealth changes. What I found was:

- Resource nodes were dropping about 25% less than R57. (averaging 30 Maple Wood, for example, instead of 40 per circuit).
- Weapons and Armor were taking more durability hits than R57.
- Mobs are respawning MUCH faster than R57. There were several times that mobs were respawning when I a) had just cleared them a minute before, or b) was killing the last 1-2 mobs in the area.

This was me doing several round circuits in Serpent's Spine Foothills.
More frequent mob respawns equates to even more durability loss.
 
Kain Darkmoor - 1160943
I am not opposed to them increasing gear decay, I would just like to know if they are. In fact I have often proposed gear decay should increase. But I also think they should make it easier to craft the specific gear you want.


Same. I don't even really want to craft anymore, but it's the only way to get even mediocre gear. I would happily buy the stuff I wanted if it was available.
 
Lazlo - 1160986
I think it would be a lot easier to get right if there were more consistency in how fast different items wear out.

Weapons need repair constantly, while armor takes much longer to deteriorate, and wands just last forever.
 
Mac2 - 1161006
LMAO.

Yes, the weapons definitely degrade WAY faster then armor, and wands do degrade, just not at nearly the same rate. I have already had to major repair my moon wands made from 2 months ago, but I was using them pretty much constantly.
 
Vladamir Begemot - 1161027
Off topic question, do you hit things with your wands? I told Viola to not have autoattack on because what is the point in breaking your wands. Curious if I was giving bad advice.
 
Mac2 - 1161038
No, I always have auto attack turned off when I am using my wands, same reason, dont want to wreck them for a 30 damage hit LOL
 
Boris Mondragon - 1161063
The whole concept of additional damage decay to enhance crafting sales is flawed logic to me. Port can just increase the gold price that npc’s pay on crafting goods to the crafter so he makes 20 percent profit on mats cost. Then you can reduce decay on gear and you have one less negative connotation to playing this game.

I use chain, dual swords and include body slam in my attack sequence. Why should my armor and weapons pay a much higher decay rate for using the best feature in heavy armor. We already have enough grief from the stupid death decay to deal with this as well.

It seems somebody making decisions at Port forgot we are here to have a good time and paying for it. Let’s stop all this consequence b.s., we have enough of it in real life and come here for a break from it not to continue it in this virtual world. R/Boris/El Pirata.
 
Chatele - 1161073
1 Googolplex and then some …. My feelings exactly...
 
ErikRulez - 1161080
I'm ok with more decay as long as I have total control over the masterwork /enchant traits I get every time. I haven't bought any crafted items because that is how I work on my crafting skills. Increasing the number of times I have to go back and craft a few swords to get a good one is not going to make me buy someone else's gear. It will just get to the point where it becomes too annoying to bother with my weapons and I'll stop playing before I buy someone else's overpriced crafted items that will just degrade just as fast.
 
Gia2 - 1161086
HALLELUIA

There is something completely fucked up, srlsy.
Having 150 ish Ranged Combat , 125 Rapid Fire, 100 Ranged Specialization.
Is there any behaviour related to the level of the skill of the weaponry involved?
Is there anything related to Aggressive Stance resources drying up maybe?


MEANWHILE WANDS DECAY IS COMPLETELY ZERO

HARD TIMES WHEN YOU ARE FORCED TO DEBUG AND DEBUNK ALL THOSE UNDOCUMENTED FEATURES THAT COULD EASILY RELY TO THE BUG SIDE.
 
Cordelayne - 1161089
Serious question for you Mac. I'm a sword and board guy and this release the durability on these weapons just gets shredded, but I am using auto-attack. Does using auto-attack cause the items to wear down faster? Should I turn it off? My armor seems pretty much the same, but the sword and shield just get killed. Thanks!
 
Scoffer - 1161096
It loses durability on hit. So having auto attack turned on will cause more hits with your sword = more durability loss.
Same applied to armor when you are getting hit. I'm assuming those people who say that decay is fine and they are happy with the changes are archers / mage types who don't get hit often. Us melee types are going through armor at an alarming rate.
 
Rowell - 1161102
Seems like I'm going to have to adjust my play style (2 weapons) and turn off auto-attack then.

Faster Durability loss = having to spend more Coto's to reset the durability on the item --or-- buying replacement items more frequently.
Faster Durability loss = having to purchase patterns from the store more often --or-- foregoing customization of armor/weapons.
 
Cordelayne - 1161105
Thanks Scoffer. It makes total sense, more hits equates to more damage to the weapon. Having said that I'm not exactly psyched about it. To put it in the perspective of a casual player (1-4 hours a week), like myself, I used to only spend two cotos a month repairing my sword and shield. I have already repaired them twice this release, using cotos lol!
 
Scoffer - 1161108
Just to clarify, I went over how durability loss works with Chris a few releases ago when there was a bug on QA.
Essentially there is no "chance" for it to lose durability, each use will reduce the durability by a fixed amount.

So for illustration purposes, lets say that fixed amount is 0.001. You hit 1000 mobs with your sword you will lose 1 durability.
Now compound that with things like whirling blades, if you hit 6 mobs with it you will lose 0.006 durability.
Take a 2h sword and hit double slash when you are a sword specialist and the 3rd hit procs you will lose 0.009 durability (3 hits x 3 mobs).
Its why things like rapid fire and multi shot shred bows. If you are doing 10 rapid fire shots you are hitting 10 times with that 1 skill and so taking 10 times the durability loss (0.010 in the example above)
 
kaeshiva - 1161126
Until they get rid of the RNG nonsense in crafting - completely - not with a "specialization" exclusivity band-aid fix but remove RNG entirely - durability loss at the current rates is not only unacceptable, it is going to do nothing to help crafters.

Guess what, in order to get materials, we have to make/repair our own gear too since mining / harvesting is more time spent fighting. We get all the adventuring cash sinks and then we also get to pour millions in gold worth of resources into a proverbial toilet due to the RNG. I expect the upcoming "specialization" is probably a motivating factor behind these durability loss rates, but I really, really hate that they're deliberately creating a problem in order to force specialization as a solution. Especially since a) its a bad solution and b) who knows when it will actually get here ?

RNG needs to go away from crafting, now, and completely forever. If you want to add specialization to crafts at some later date, that make those schools more efficient or unlock a few exclusive whatevers - fine.
If you are thinking to remove it for specialization only, its not going to change anything, as people will just make alts. This should be obvious by now - players want self sufficiency, they want control over what they create/produce/achieve during the time they spend.

Making items more disposable does not help crafters nor does it help create a market for 'junk'. Junk is junk - nobody buys it, nobody wears it, nobody wants it, and its worthless to npc. We need a seriously beneficial consumption methodology for junk, or, failing that, TO STOP MAKING IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Seriously, are we going the way of the survival game now? Let me repair/replace my gear every hour? Thanks but no thanks. Weeks of mining for a weapon that lasts a couple days is just stupid. There's simply no other word for it. Do we have this robust crafting system and the ability to make great things but we're not meant to actually use them? What exactly is the point of that?
 
Mac2 - 1161130
Yep, thats why using rapid fire on my bow ate it up in less then a month.
 
westonmc - 1161144
I do hate the level of RNG in crafting, I honestly wish everything just costed 15x as much raw materials as there have been plenty of times when I batch up 20 teir 3 weapons and end up with 300 pieces of metal scrap and maybe a axe head or a handle or 2 for my troubles.
 
Scoffer - 1161152
the problem with that of course is that there is now lower resource gains......
 
Boris Mondragon - 1161173
Well until they reduce the item decay I will go through all the garbage armor/swords I made and when I run out of those I will use the better looted rusty chain and plate. Will not buy good stuff that will not last nor give up either dual wield and body slam. I guess it’s a case of “Suck it up melee” until their stubbornness subsides. And they wonder why the player numbers do not go up as they would like. R/Boris/The soon to be wearing rusty armor pirate.
 
Scoffer - 1161175
Which is exactly why increasing durability loss doesn't help crafters ;)
 
Tila Tenderfoot - 1161199
Well, I have to craft a bow every 3 weeks or so, and I don’t play 12 hours per day like Mac. I do still steal aggro from tanks and do get hit a lot. At 118 bow masterwork, it takes less resources than it used to make an okay bow but the RNG is truly horrendous. So I try to make 2 bows - one for bosses and one for multishot, neither above 65 durability. The multishot one decays a lot faster because it’s used more.

I’ve also noticed that the scrap rate of elven bows has gone downhill since r57 - been getting less elven strings. Would be nice if we could control the rng by virtue of higher crafting skills at least.
 
Boris Mondragon - 1161292
Brother; you have a stronger voice with the devs and I just tend to piss them off by calling it as I see it. Maybe you can suggest a reconsideration on the armor/weapon decay and a suggestion to let you guys make money off your crafted goods off the NPCs and then craft exactly what people want that will last a while. This idea can also help the gatherers who will have more demand on raw and refined goods for you crafters to create/MW/Enchant. I will get by and work up my MW/Enchant that I left in the low 70s and make iron chain/plate/meteoric armor swords if in need until it gets sorted out. R/Boris/El Pirata
 
Thwip - 1161528
I do no crafting, I buy all my gear, and even all my deco.

Increasing durability loss will cause me to buy less gear. I will not pay very much for something that wears out quickly. I will not pay very much for poor gear.

I will pay happily for gear that lasts. I will happily pay well for good gear.

RNG in crafting should be for the strength of the buff, not for which buff gets applied. Allow crafter to choose the buff, and RNG the strength of that buff according to skill.

Allow crafters to create good gear, allow them to build gear to requested specs. Allow them to add value, and they will have valuable gear.
 
Jaesun - 1161559
Xee making that vendor that just sells exceptional weapons was a great idea...
 
eli - 1162769
Fight naked!!
 
Paladin Michael - 1162815
Time for martial arts come in as new skills ...