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Thread containing the given PostID
ShurTugal - 1161463
The question I have, and I am curious to hear every ones feedback, Is it a mistake for port to try to sell shroud of the avatar as the spiritual successor to Ultima Online?? Would they have greater success selling the game on its merits alone??? Full disclosure, I never played UO, any of them. I heard about shroud via Markeedragon and I bought in at final wipe. since then I have been playing shroud strictly based on the game itself and what it has to offer me not that it may or may not be the successor or some such to another game I never played. As such I must say I like the game. I don't always like some of the choices or directions the devs go but I think since I am not always, In my mind, trying to compare it to another game I never played than I tend to give the devs more leeway and tend to be more accepting and understanding of the choices the devs have to make. I find so many times that people are always complaining about the game and saying how UO did it this way or UO did it that way etc etc so I got to thinking. Are the devs making a mistake trying to link the two together. would they have greater success selling the game on its own merits and what it has to offer and give it its own legs to move forwards. bigger question.... Are they making a mistake trying to market to UO players in general (I am assuming they are because its always successor this and successor that) and would they have greater success just marketing to players in general who like this type of MMO game???? Thanks for your feedback... :):)
 
Rufus D`Asperdi - 1161491
Common misconception. It was never sold as the Successor to Ultima Online... It was sold as the Spiritual Successor to the Ultima Series... some baker's dozen of titles, of which Ultima Online was One.
 
ShurTugal - 1161515
Fair point but the question is still valid. You have this "shining city on the hill" the Ultima stuff and now your building a new city and trying to compare the two. Rather I wonder if the better approach would have be "ya we creating this other game and it was great and amazing but now we are creating this new game. Yes there are some similarities to the old one but hay this is a new game with great content...... Give us a try." this hole successor approach doesn't seem to be working imo. :):)
 
Apostle - 1161536
People seem to forget that this game is a full stand alone game for $39.99. Both single player and multi. Which is an incredibly hard thing to do with an RPG.
I feel a lot of us here are because of UO, but there has to be a few here just because of Richard Garriott and the Ultima Series.
I personally think they made the hard release date of Episode 1 about six months too early. But I can't really blame Portalarium, this is a different era of commercial online gaming and they bust their ass off, monthly to give us more content that continues to flush the world out. And when I say 'world's, I mean it. There are spoons and forks and tea sets and books and swords and staves, etc. All actual tangible items. The beauty of SotA is the small details that we take for granted. All these useless items are left out of your standard RPG. Novia is ten times the world that Nirn is, or Tamriel for the laymen, or Daggefall/Skyrim/Morrowind for the lay-lay-laymen. The Elder Scrolls is probably the closest RPGs that did their best to try. I don't even have to mention Norrath or Telon, or Aerynth, Midgard/Albion/Sylvan, Auberean, Istaria, and certainly not Azeroth. All mmo's first, and RPG's second. That's a small detail people forget when they come to SotA.
Im really excited for Episode Two, not just for end game content, but for every single thing they add to "create worlds"
They don't need to sell this game as a standard mmo, it's not. It's an RPG. If anything, market it as a stand alone single player RPG. It has far more to offer than Dark Souls, or The Witcher or Pillars of Eternity or any recent triple A RPG series.
 
Warrior B'Patrick - 1161543
Greetings all. I think when they mention it is a spiritual successor to Ultima you have to keep in mind the core of the game. Truth, Love, and Courage are the initial elements of all the Ultima games. Ultima IV even had the 3 question to decide you fate (Play style). The rest of the game is built around that. Everything else can change and because of copyright laws should change. If you are an previous Ultima player you will recognize similar elements if you are not just enjoy the game.
 
Barugon - 1161596
Spiritual successor, not successor.
 
ShurTugal - 1161604
Tomato, tomoto.... I think everyone gets the point I am getting across. :):)
 
Jason_M - 1161615
I have a huge amount of nostalgia for Ultima Online. I tried to play Ultima 4 once, but it was simply before my time. I couldn't acclimate to the way things once were.

With that said, I don't have rose colored glasses for UO. It was a problematic beast, but I played it again and again for more than a decade because it was what it was and I loved it despite its problems.

So I guess that makes me the ideal target of that marketing - I longed for a game that carried on the world but improvwd upon the mechanics. Diverging from UO is a good thing, in my opinion, as long as the spirit and the culture persists.

By the way, OP, are you the Drizzt youtuber who begins every video with "Shroud of the Avatar, spiritual successor to Ultima Online"?
 
ErikRulez - 1161618
I don't think the problem of jumping to the conclusion that SOTA is the successor to UO is the dev's fault. I think it is the players who wanted so badly for a UO sequel that they are hearing their own version of what was actually said. For my part, I never played UO either. I played many of the earlier ultima titles and from my perspective, SOTA is the spiritual successor of the series. They took some of the elements from the games before and woven them into this new world. As for if marketing it that way was a bad idea, I think any game developer who is proud of what they have accomplished would point to their earlier work for support. EA may own the Ultima brand, but Lord British is a brand to himself in some respects and I can't blame him for using that the same way any company would use brand recognition for marketing. I think it worked for the most part as there are many early supporters here that played some/all of his previous games. That being said, there are a large number of vocal UO players/former players here in the forums that want SOTA to be a sequel to that game. It is not what was promised, but they do have the right to give their feedback to direct the game like the rest of us. I don't think UO players were specifically targeted, they're just the ones coming from the most recent Ultima game, perhaps with less nostalgia and more detail oriented opinions.
 
Rufus D`Asperdi - 1161627
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Chemical - 1161628
For myself I registered back in May 2013 and followed it for a bit hoping it would have more of a Ultima Online feel however I did not get that vibe early on and lost interest very quickly. I Personally felt like it wasnt a game for someone looking for an immersive mmorpg and seemed more like sims.

I eventually ended up trying out on the free trial and was completely lost saw so many bugs and eventually got my character stuck and couldn't move and force closed out of the game and ranted about it with my bro.

When it got released I ended up coming back and playing to give it a chance and to explore more. Having played it and loving some of the Ultima Series and loving UO I feel this game has enormous potential if they would adopt many more aspects of UO and give it a more mmo feel.

So I am really here hoping for a UO feel. Though at this point for me personally episode 2 is what is going to make it or break it for me.
 
Rufus D`Asperdi - 1161630
It's more than Toe-may-toe, Toe-mah-toe, because many people see "Spiritual Successor" and make up their own definition of what that might mean, and then hold the development team accountable to Their Individual Vision rather than look at what's been built objectively and See the Myriad Ways that what's been built meets the requirement.

I cite as examples the posts immediately above and below this one.
 
Vero - 1161632
How this felt for me when I started;

So little background info: I was 'still' playing UO summer of 2016. (2000-2016, OSI in the beginning, Freeshards till the end lol) when i heared about Shroud. I was at that time still playing UO daily.
The moment i stepped into Shroud i was hooked. I had a great UO Vibe from what i was seeing. (this felt this way for ME)

my 1st iron node i mined: UO!
my 1st encounter with a troll: UO!

I was seeing, feeling and hearing Ultima the whole time.

So in UO i was hammering stuff with mostly archery, so i started in Shroud with Achery aswel. The hours went by and i was seeing and feeling UO vibes all the time.

My gametime in UO was very very similar as Shroud is right now for me. I like to kill stuff mostly; specifically i love fighting dragons. I was grinding dragons in UO. Am grinding dragons in SOTA.

If you ask me: Shroud is the spiritual successor for Ultima Online for me 100%

:)






BTW: last Sunday installed UO again cus of reasons you all know i think :p. Something with 'could not play shroud!' Ended up de-installing UO at the end of the night. Conclusion for me: UO had it's days and will stay as a awesome memory :p
 
Gorthyn - 1161644
Possibly it's not going as well as expected due to the issues the game has rather than any Spiritual Successor misconceptions. I would suggest the problems run much deeper than that.
 
Brass Knuckles - 1161650
Hard to say the only reason why I supported it was because of UO, I would not have touched it as a non sequal title.

Though it has some stuff that reminds me of UO they did deliver a difrent game, and its not terrible. For me I woulda been happier with UO 2.0 oh well im still playing this and I expect ill be here a while longer.
 
Astirian - 1161726
This is a very interesting question! Prepare for Wall of Words. :)

So, preamble; my background is: massive fan of Ultima 8 (I was 12 going on 13 when it released) then Ultima 7 fan somewhat retro-actively, I liked Ultima 9 for the immersion but realized the limitation of 3D graphic capabilities of 1999, it usually made worlds feel small, probably could have scoped better set in Pagan. Played UO for maybe 2 years on and off, enough to buy a boat and a wooden cabin (yey). The main city in the game was bustling (Britain [Ardoris?] ), some other cities sometimes felt like ghost towns. NO quests in UO which is a design decision I understand.

Historical context as I understand it (I'm a frikkin' Padawan when it comes to the Ultima I-VI guys!):

U7 was a masterpiece of modern RPG design, it informed a whole generation of game designers.
UO pre-dated EverQuest and World of Warcraft, it was the start of modern MMOs as we know them (barring some stuff like Meridian59 and MUDs etc...) and one hell of an online experience.

Video games were way more of a niche back then than they are now. That's just a product of technology and generational change. If you ask me, games got on the average Joe's radar with World of Warcraft in 2004 (mainly due to its sheer amount of polish and content), went ballistic in 2007 with Call of Duty and positively nuclear in 2011 with Skyrim, just around the time being a nerd became cool. 2012 saw the movie The Avengers, a massive surge of indie devs (why hello there Unity) and the apex of Mobile fever (in a Gold Rush where people made MILLIONS) and now here we are, 6 years later (in a time I'd probably call... The Age of Noisy Noisiness).

Now, crunching some numbers I just made up in my own head, the skew between non-Ultima fans versus newcomers (let's call them 'Normals' from here on out 'cos it's hilarious) should be fairly large because A) People like making babies; and B) Technology advances fast but is tempered by; C) There's all of the things everywhere now, it's harder to rise above the great and dangerous Sea of Mediocrity because the bar has been lowered substantially and strong curators (as financially profiting entities) aren't a thing yet (they will be, trust me).

Whether the original fans evangelize or whine or whether they don't probably won't affect things greatly in the long run. It's like the Stream of Time, you can affect it a bit but it always returns to its course. Every agonist has his antagonist, when the balance is off between the two, there's definitely an issue to be addressed. Port has demonstrated that they listen to fans but also that they have prioritized wrongly also in the past. It's a balanced thing. The fact is, they're making the game they're going to make, it's their game! One which I personally think feels like a modern UO (YMMV).

Being a long-term fan I do, however, feel like they need to paddle the oars faster on the single-player narrative side of the boat a lot more to stop the boat going in circles. And I don't mean the content, I mean the presentation and grandeur (or spectacle @Lord British) of the content. Incidentally I found Britannia Manor in-game recently and was filled with the wonder, history and potential of further greatness of this series (the Ultima III cover art in particular was very touching). For comparison, take your favourite game desginer, now imagine you found the guy's house in-game and could poke around in it.

Shroud is not trying to be an MMO (at least in the modern Genre Defined sense*), UO invented the term! But it is multiplayer in a big way. It's a place I can hang out in, a place with a long real-life history I care deeply about.
*(Which ironically, is why I would love to see the NPC dialogue box updated, they don't have yellow quest icons over NPC heads thankfully so why have an MMO dialogue box?)

So tldr; while the people and long-term fans who backed the game deserve what they were sold as investors in an idea and continuation of a legend of gaming they care deeply about, it's great to hear that Normals enjoy it too. In fact bringing on more Normals is critical to the long-term success of a new would-be series. Advertising to both should be fine, assuming that mass market appeal (as hard as that is to put a number on) will come anyway as the game continues to improve.

Extra technical marketing stuff (I am probably inventing things here, buyer beware): If you knew that there were 100 potential buyers and 25 of those were prior fans. You'd probably do 75% general appeal marketing and 25% marketing to your pre-existing series fans anyway. It's all in knowing the numbers. Which is hard.

And lastly, I'm no crusty old 'get off my lawn' gamer. I own a PC, a PS4, a PS3, a PS2, A Wii U, a Switch, a 3DS ( a Nintendo DS and Wii I don't know where they are), a PSP too... I'm a WoW veteran, I've finished Baldur's Gate, The Witcher and Skyrim and many others (outliers like Two Worlds II). I play Fallout 4, No Man's Sky and Assassin's Creed: Origins. I've played all the Battlefields. I sometimes play PUBG, just finished Subnautica, I've finished most of the Castlevanias and I love Zelda, the Batman games on PlayStation. I've played U-Boat sims, WWII strategy games, WWII aircraft simulation games, hardcore Russian SU-27 jet fighter simulators, Scribblenauts and Brain Training ("Blue! … Bloo!").

And out of all this stuff (which is a fraction), SotA right now is my crack.
 
Rufus D`Asperdi - 1161732
It's less valid, when built on a false premise, and merely serves to perpetuate the misconception.

But, to address your argument... What would be the practical application of coming to the conclusion "Yes, it would likely have been better to sell the game on its own merits rather than link it to the Ultima Series?"
Coming to that conclusion, if that were the ultimate outcome of the debate, would serve no purpose as it cannot change the past.

While it might be an interesting thought exercise, it serves no practical purpose and only serves to perpetuate useless arguments... arguments based on a false premise.
 
EMPstrike - 1161736
This games past is the ultima universe (the “lost” portion of it) and its heavily hinted at and blatantly told thats thecase at one point.

It has a morality system just like the old ultimas, the map is an old ultima map, and you access scenes from the overworld like the earlier ultimas.

Its both spiritually and mechanically like ultima.

But its a successor in the same sense that final fantasy 14 is the successor to final fantasy 2
 
Nib - 1161747
People who never played UO just don't seem to understand what that game did for online gaming.
 
Lord Trady of Blix - 1161753
I consider it an Ultima game. I think it could be more Ultima like - hopefully we get better written quests in Part 2. But the general story I like, even if it doesnt make any sense.

Should it be marketed as such ? Dont see why not. It should be marketed period.
 
EMPstrike - 1161775
The story might rely too heavily on having read the book, but having read the book i find the story pretty darn interesting and have been speculating wildly about some of the bigger mysteries
 
CrandalltheFoole - 1161805
Mostly I see the old UO gamers comparing the two, not the present team at Portalarium.

Well, well, a successor to a hole.
 
Doctorface - 1161836
I had a blast in the game 100% on it's own merits. The only experience I had with ultima online was watching a couple twitch streamers play it for a few hours. When I saw shroud I just kinda knew it would be a game I would enjoy. I had no idea who Starr Long or Richard Garriot even were beyond some jokes I heard about a lord british when I was younger. Game has a lot going for it.
 
Blightlord Knightmare - 1161889
I don't think anyone cares, it wouldn't likely affect even one purchase.

With all the reviews, trailers, videos, streams, blogs, tweets, posts, comments, no one is going to be unaware of exactly what this game is.

Furthermore, what percentage of online RPG players know what UO is or was? 10%? 15%? How many of those even played UO? UO only had 250k subs at its very epic peak.. and there are tens of millions of unique MMO players.

Considering the time sink involved in an MMO, people tend to study what they're getting into and whether or not this game is a successor to something they probably never even heard of or spiritual successor or whatever just isn't going to make a difference. The real factors are things like (in descending order), Do my guildmates play this? Do my friends play this? Does the gameplay seem to fit my style? Is the world or story an interesting one? Is it Pay to Win? ..and then you start getting to things like Whats the Price? and Is this the spiritual successor to an old IP that I've heard about or played before?
 
Paladin Michael - 1161927
I don't think it was or is a mistake.
The leading people of Ultima and Ultima Online founded this game.

Over years the UO part seemed to be priorized.
I got the feeling the quest engine wasn't programmed with the love an epic (5 Episodes!) story telling game needed.
I think it was underrated - and this will change:
The big promise for Episode 2 (Story, Quest, Journal rework) will show how close it comes to the Origin Ultima world ... and that would give a boost for all (new and old disappointed) Fans of (every) Ultima.

I played and liked both: Ultima and UO. I quit UO because of missing story. Never used crafting.
I tried a little of those stuff in WoW.

In SotA I tried harvesting and crafting and I learned:
this has an own fun factor.
And I am not trying to earn a lot of gold. That's another factor you can use ;)
Also the whole housing stuff!

The "mistake" if we should call it this way is another one:
(mis)understanding ...
different point of view ...
different definition of words ...
Or, like Rufus said very correct above:
Yes, those typical human "mistakes" leading to misunderstanding ;)

But all the views, all the given feedback made and makes this game something very special.
And therefor, again: in my opinion it is a (spiritual) success(or) ...
I don't count player numbers. I see them coming over the next years.
I observe a lot of people are hunting from one to another game, greedy for better graphics, better sounds, more realism ...
... a lot of effects, and people seem very fast tired of all that stuff.

SotA will be a long term success(or), because of it's variety ...
It's not one of those fast-and-furious-games. It is a game leading in an interesting world, full of epic story and so many things to explore ...
No, no mistake referring to the asked question :) Just my opinion and point of view.
 
Synergy Blaize - 1161967
Yes I agree with You @Nib
UO really was a Trailblazer for every game that people have played since its release....


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Watching this video, will make you realise that is true....
 
wedrax - 1162033
I played Ultima online for about 15 years and i Always miss it, for me was the best drug ever maked in on-line gaming and i call it the father of all the mmporg. I came here just cause i trusted to feel again what UO maked me feel; I must say a thing, the game make me feel in UO on a lot of things, but i must also calculate the time are changed, the rythm of life is changed, the players are different and the concept behind the game must be reworked taking count of all those aspects. So i will continue to support and trust the game, it has a lot of potential but on the other hand i must say it lack a lot a lot of things there was on UO. So i believe and trust portalarium but that doesn't mean i will be a blind funboy, and just cause i want all the best for that game. The problem here is most people of the community don't take count of all the things i mentioned above and of what the masses of players want but they think just to their own little garden and those people sadly are the most listened from portalarium and that maybe snare what this game can be.

(Hoping to not offend with my humble personal point of view)
 
ShurTugal - 1162047
yup. I have started those videos that way because that is how the game was sold to me. "It's the spiritual successor, it's the spiritual successor." everyone was saying that's what it was so that's how I promoted it because I wanted to be accurate but now with all the complaints and things I have been hearing, I am starting to question that approach and will NOT be identifying the game in that manner moving forward. :)
 
Sher Shadowleaf - 1162113
I'd like the definition of 'spiritual successor'. If, according to Webster, successor means "a person or thing that succeeds another", then how do you spiritually do that? Don't be surprised if people get confused.

By the way, I never played UO or the Ultimas, so I don't ever compare them at all.
 
Beaumaris - 1162126
Ultimas had Avatars. SOTA has Avatars.
Ultimas had a virtues-driven story line. SOTA has a virtues-driven story line.
Ultimas had a skill-based combat progression system. SOTA has a skill based combat progression system.
Ultimas had robust player-driven crafting systems/economies. SOTA has a robust player-crafting-driven economy.
Ultimas had a very interactive world. SOTA has an very interactive world (POTs, lots, housing, decorations) that is increasingly so.
Ultimas had a purple Llama. SOTA has a Purple Llama lurking around somewhere too.
And things are improving … every … month … with more to come.

I think it passes just fine.
 
EMPstrike - 1162209
Just to throw out what ive seen from the other side, everyone who has had an issue with it not being a “successor to the ultimas” has either been because its literally not UO, literally not ultima 6, and/or doesnt give them the “oh wow”feelingfrom when they first experienced a game like ultima 6.

The latter could only be achieved if the game was entirely new tech and mechanics never experienced before, and i nelieve some disappointed people have unfortunately set thier bar that high
 
Canterbury - 1162211
An interesting question. I think it would be more fair if the game had been sold on its own merits as, assuredly, this game feels nothing like any of the standalone Ultimas OR Ultima Online to me, in any way.

But obviously, PR is PR and the devs thought it would be better to trade on past games they have been involved with and for Richard to sprinkle the idea of the "spiritual successor" into interviews, etc.

And I guess when we look at the incredibly low number of people who bought the game, and the insanely low number of people who still play it, without that added PR, who knows if it would have even sailed at all?
 
EMPstrike - 1162219
Certainly had some kinda effect to both have people play it for ages and folks who talk about how much they hate it for ages. I dont think it woulda mattered how it was worded, you can find something good constantly if you like it.

Likewise, people who hate it are always gonna look for reasons to hate it.
 
Micmatty - 1162237
Just this livestream that happened today Richard said "it's also the spiritual successor to Ultima online and that is where Star and I first started working together" if you can't believe the creator himself I don't know who else you can believe.

I for myself since this game was first announced everywhere I read from articles to video reviews to even videos of Lord British UO was always mentioned and how it was the first and best mmo.

And regardless if it was written as successor to the series, UO was always the main focus atleast from everything I've seen, even in the forums alot of people talk about UO.

So in that sense I came in here with certain expectations and to be frank I was let down but it has potential tho episode two will definitely be the make it or break it for me.

Also the fact that darkstarr came from UO you figured it would of taken a little more direction from that.

And spiritual successor and successor is basically the same thing to me just one is a little less likely to get sued over

This is not hate to those who like those types of games but I didn't come to shroud to have a sims/second life/fishing simulator 2018 I like many I know wanted UO 2.0 but what we have is a game with an identity disorder and a huge diversity problem which to me is one of the biggest reason this game isn't doing aswell as it could be, as single player with multiplayer experience sounded neat on paper I just don't think having both was wise and caused a rift between single and multiplayer everyday when someone asks for group or more end game content it is very frustrating always seeing those few people but my solo play etc.. etc..

P. S Sorry for my horrid grammer
 
Rufus D`Asperdi - 1162248
The operative word in what you quote is "also"... Ultima Online is one title in the Ultima Series and SotA is also the spiritual success to Ultima Online in addition to the other titles in the series... No one is arguing that Ultima Online is Excluded from the Spiritual Successor umbrella.

Here is the quote from Lord British's introduction from today's livestream which starts at 2:19.
(Emphasis mine)

Go Listen for yourself.
 
Mac2 - 1162260
I never played UO, but I have heard from many people about the similarities and the differences between the 2. Thing is, many many games that even have the same name just part 2 and 3 ect, are not the same as themselves as well but are still a successor to the one previous. Like devil may cry 1 was pretty different then part 2 ( I liked part 1 combat better) I dont know what successor means to you, but the real meaning is "one that follows", this does not say anything about it having to be the same.
 
Warrior B'Patrick - 1162269
Greetings @Synergy Blaize for the UO video. I am a Ultima Player from U2 to at least U7 but family and work caught up with me and I never played UO. It was wonderful to see what it was like.
 
Jason_M - 1162285
I don't think that that description was misleading at all, to be honest. This game is in every way a spiritual successor ... to some people.

As you can see in these comments, people who played the same games had very different experiences. Two UO players either played different games or the classic disclaimer your experiences may vary during online play is truer than the lawyers could have known.

Even the Ultima players can't agree, and that was fixed gameplay - although that gameplay did vary significantly across the series.

Consider this, though: the legacy of Ultima Online is farther reaching than its playerbase and the brand recognition is undeniable. Portalarium cannot assure that the game play will actually reflect the expectations of the incredibly diverse player base, so that shouldn't be a consideration. It's impossible.

So, I'd say keep on calling it the spiritual successor, because that is what it is insofar as it is possible 25 years later.

P.S., I enjoy your videos :)
 
Mingo Ebonmark - 1162296
Spot on Jason! I have worked many real life jobs with colleagues that have the exact same role as me - I loved doing my job yet they hated it. In other jobs I hated it and they were loving it.
 
Nevyn Waldail - 1162335
That video on the history surrounding UO is awesome, I loved that game and played it for many years from the beginning. I have never found a game that even came close to offering the reality of an interactive world, despite the graphics, that UO provided. I certainly never got as immersed in any other game and I've pretty much tried most of the main ones. DaoC was probably my next favourite.

SotA is so far the closest and most likely to hold my attention but I do worry about population levels and I really hope they don' t make the mistake almost all these games make of making more and more playable areas watering down an already weak player base. Games like UO and SotA are about interaction with others its what separates them from the rest.
 
Chemical - 1162343
Actually yes there are a lot of that people that are arguing that sota is not a spiritual successor of UO and it is of the ultima serie. That is one of the points he is making by stating that Richard mentioned it which isn't the first time it had even been mentioned since 2013 and even on the kickstarter page it mentions UO.

Like you mentioned UO is part of the Ultima Series and whether they say successor to Ultima or UO it's all the same to because it incorporates things from all of it. You cant have one without the other.
 
Rufus D`Asperdi - 1162346
Those people, I will take your word that they exist as I've not encountered them myself, are just as wrong as those that claim it's the successor to UO alone.
 
majoria70 - 1162349
You really are an awesome writer. I really enjoyed every moment reading what you wrote. I always wanted this game to be my virtual home. I feel we are headed in the right direction filling in the missing pieces as we go from a very unusual form of development. Richard said it today they are determined and will do whatever it takes. I am very heartened by hearing that since being here so many years and wishing for just the right something to pull our beautiful world together. Things are coming every one. Hang on to your hats;)
 
Astirian - 1163101
Thanks Maj! :) I always enjoy reading your posts.

I'm about half-way through the stream now and I'm feeling pretty positive about things I have to say! They clarified that they're fixing the current quest system right now with some new data gathering tools which is great. Then new system comes out with Ep II. I can totally live with that. The only thing left for me really is the NPC Conversation window and I'm set! :D

Treasure hunting is coming too! I am over the moon about this. :)

And for the others, no death decay! That seems huge. That and Grandmaster perks and crafting specializations! Some big big changes incoming. Global chat too. (don't know how I feel about that one yet. :)) - I should watch the streams more often that's for sure! This is only the second or third one I've watched.
 
Rufus D`Asperdi - 1163233
I'll never turn it on... general global chats are universally worthless.
 
Barugon - 1163328
I know why people want it, though, and it's not for friendly conversation. It's to spam their wares.
 
Rufus D`Asperdi - 1163357
Which is the same as in every other game that has a general global chat, which is why I'll never turn it on.
 
Rufus D`Asperdi - 1163359
Which is the same as in every other game that has a general global chat, which is why I'll never turn it on.
 
EMPstrike - 1163409
I woulda rather had to be face to face to someone to talk too. way mroe interesting and personal that way and i didnt want global chat in the past. But because so many folks play in private mode and you never see them, it would be helpful to have any sort of way to interact with them, and a global chat COULD scratch that itch a bit. Still think seeing privat emdoe people greyed out on neabry players in open mode would do the job better tho.

But ultimately "numbers" are better in private mode so Open will never seem that populated.
 
Spoon - 1164383
To the op.

This game started as a kickstarter and that Kickstarter would never have reached its goal without the nostalgia value of Ultima and Garriott.
So the existence of the game (and company) is due to that.

However nostalgia is a double edged blade (of the avatar) and they should have downplayed the ultima tagline more for the persistence launch.
This since you can’t compete with memories of what the future could have been. And because they really needed to reach a new market segment that wasn’t here for the nostalgia but rather for the game on its own merits.

For a scary experience go through your favorite movies and games when you were a teen and see that with some few exceptions they haven’t aged well.
 
jammaplaya - 1164388
So true. I went back and tried to watch several movies that, in the 90's were hilarious, gold quality, but these days the jokes simply aren't funny, the acting is horrible and I have no idea how I sat through them before.
 
Kalidorn - 1164782
My feeling was that folks took Spiritual Successor as areally broad term not really meaning what everyone thought it was. Sota was a RPG and stand alone game of the same vein of Ultima by the guys who brought you Ultima. To me it seems like beating a dead horse over the wording. I like Sota for Sota not a game I played years ago beat and stopped playing. I always played Richards games cause I like the projects he is involved with same with Darkstarr. It doesn't matter how close to Ultima it is for me to enjoy it. Holding one game up to the candle of another just seems silly to me. I play for the game, if I enjoy the game and if not I move on. I measure games not by the achievements of past glories but by how much i have invested and how many hours of fun they delivered. So I'm at 2000 hours so as far as I'm concerned perfect or not they have entertained me way more than I've given them. But all that said if Ultima was never mentioned again It might be a good Idea for folks who think they made the same game. They could never have done that anyway EA is an evil company and they would have sued the pants off them before anyone saw a concept drawing lol.
 
Alleine Dragonfyre - 1164838
I think what the real problem is that people are mistaking "spiritual successor" with "clone." I really wish folks would stop it already.

I see MANY hints of UO everywhere. I think, really, that's what it's about. Also, the game is designed by the daddy of Ultima. That, right there, makes SotA spiritually linked to UO.

Ultima Online still exists and is owned by a different company now. It simply cannot be a clone of Ultima Online nor can it mimic many of its established systems. Richard never implied that it would.
 
Barugon - 1164863
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritual_successor
I think that pretty much nails SotA.
 
Xee - 1165515
I played UO for many years and see alot of Uo in SOTA. Its not UO2.0 but an off spin of some of the best parts mixed with other things in a 3d version. Its enough to keep me going, and always look forward to every patch... they just cant come fast enough. Wish they did micro patches every 2 weeks rather than monthly or release small parts as they are completed ;)
 
Simon LeBon - 1165968
First I just want to thank the OP and everyone who has commented on this thread so far.

I never played the Ultima series prior to Ultima Online. I read about UO during alpha/beta on some PC game magazine sometime in 1997. I downloaded the game when open beta started in the last month or two before launch. I was HOOKED. I got roommates involved. We shared a huge house (in real life) and lived in a rare municipality in which we had cable modem access in 1997. We set up a room networked with four PCs and had four UO accounts at launch. It was some of the most fun I had in video games EVER. When we rarely get together now and visit from out of state, we STILL tell stories of what we did in UO twenty years ago.

SOTA, to me, is a spiritual successor to various parts of all the Ultimas and UO. I'm only two weeks into SOTA, so I realize I'm pretty green. I'm disappointed in this game ONLY in that I just found out about it. I'm not sure how I missed it being around so long. I WOULD have been a kickstarter contributor. But saying all that, I may not have stuck around either... or at least I would have had long months of not logging in. Early alpha sounds like it was rough. I want to commend ALL of those who have stuck it out, developers and players alike. So in that sense, I'm glad to be here right now, in it's current state. I'm never going to be a power player. I don't have the free time available in my life that I did back in the late 90's.

But my kid is playing this game (shhh, don't tell my wife about the zombies or the blood). My very best friend and one of my roommates from '97, who now lives hours away... and like me, has his own family... he is now in the game. My brother, two states away is building a new PC to get into this game. A few more roommates and friends who played with us... they are starting to check it out. I'm "virtually" getting the band back together... the one from UO... 20 years later.

I love where this game is going. IF there is ONE thing I hope does not occur it is this (and I believe it was mentioned earlier in this thread): Please, devs... do not introduce too much space so quickly that it spreads out the MMO population too thin. The best part of this game is what made UO so good as well: community. We need to run into each other. Yes bigger worlds are amazing and can be heralded as achievements. BUT the biggest achievement and the one that keeps people here AND draws in the new free trialists is the number of friendly people that are willing to give them advice or hand them a piece of armor or point them down the road to where they want to go. It's important that this online world be large enough to keep us all coming back BUT small enough to keep us all coming back to each other.
 
Rufus D`Asperdi - 1166211
Welcome home. ;)

Come talk to me if you and yours need a place to settle... I built Dawn's Keep specifically with you and yours in mind.*

* Figuratively, of course... ;)
 
Tsumo2 - 1166262
Either or?
 
licemeat - 1166291
I was sold the idea of this game as a successor to Ultima Online. I was sold that idea because I heard it come from Richard's mouth saying it was definitely the way he thinks of it. (LINK 20 seconds in) After this interview, Darkstarr, director of UO, joined the SoTA team as Executive Producer providing more evidence and reinforcement to the idea of what this was to become.

Anyway, it has to be sold on its own merit, it's definitely not UO2, and, IMO, it's too bad. 100% creative freedom from the actual Gods of Ultima Online equals a project that should make many weep in joy.
 
Micmatty - 1166294
Also to add to that something I noticed today when looking at the about dev team because of the whole ceo thing I reread darkstarrs info and it shows this at the bottom "Starr’s extensive leadership of Lord British Productions projects and specifically his leadership of Ultima Online, is a clear message to Shroud of the Avatar players, that this will be the epic fantasy role playing game they have been waiting almost 15 years to play!"

I'm pretty sure this is strictly talking about UO but who knows.
 
Elwyn - 1166335
Kind of too late for that, it's already sized for maybe ten times the population minimum. When I have a 50 friends list and the only common zones for them are UT and some popular POTs, it's going to feel empty.